Useless Indicators or Useless information

I think the only thing worse than no information is useless information and then bad information. Today must be let me “post or send out useless information day.” Saw and heard quite a bit of how useless and/or bad indicators are, how every indicator is based on lagging information, that support and resistance lines are not, price action is the best because it only uses price. You only need a SMA and Fib lines everything else is over analyzing. Not only useless information but bad as well in a lot of cases.

I hope when less experience traders and new traders see these types of information they put it in the same file as: buy my system and learn how I took $100 and turned into $1,000.000 with no work, education, worries or time; or Buy my signals 100% accurate based on a secret formula; (one of my personal favorites) Finally Secret strategy released for the 1st time; Make millions with my one of a kind 2 step process and of course, all the pros use this charting package etc etc, etc.

The trades you make or don’t make the strategy you apply or don’t, are all based on lagging information. What did price open at; how high did it go; how low did it go; what did it close at. Whether you use: 1, 5,15 or 30min, 1 and 4 hour, daily, weekly or monthly time frames, the info you are looking at: candlesticks, bars or line graphs and making your decisions based on is lagging information. Indicators or lack of and the different strategies that you trade with should be used to give you an edge when trading.

If you asked a successful trader if they could have the trend, momentum and the cycle on your side, would you be more likely to trade or not; they would all tell you they would be more likely to trade. The hundreds of Indicators and thousands of custom indicators available, are designed to take the lagging information that’s available and present it to help you in your decision making process concerning a currency pair’s trend, momentum and cycle. None are useless all are different and work or don’t work to help you with your trading strategy. For example. Someone who is using a swing trader approach would be much more interested in a 200 MVA than someone using a scalping strategy. Or someone who is using a Day trading strategy would be more interested in a 1 hour time frame chart than someone who is using a Position trading strategy using a weekly chart.

So in the end, before you listen to and decide what is useless, worthless, bad or good, decide based on the relevant facts and your current options what kind of trader you are and what you’re are 1st trying to accomplish as a trader; decide using all the relevant available information that you need to see if the trade you are about to take will help you get closer to your goals or put you further a way. What indicator or strategy can I use to address, trend, momentum, cycle, my trading plan and goals. If you get stuck, you can always remember what my Grandfather said: If you’re trying to decide on what’s the best shoe for bricklayers, don’t ask a carpenter.

I think the correct answer would be useless traders. Nice post.

Good post.

My favorite are the people that claim to trade without using indicators while not understanding that a candlestick formation and a S/R level are both types of indicators. I love the simplicity of Price Action/naked chart trading but I find myself irritated that indicators really just present the same types of information in different visual formats. That’s it.

:35: Ya that one always cracks me up.

Of course you’re right there are a lot of indicators that present the same information in a different format which can be aggravating. Then on the other hand; I know 2 swing traders; one uses 200 SMA and Heken Ashi candles, the other uses std candles, a 50 SMA and a customized moving average oscillator. Both use one hour, four hour and daily time frames. They are very successful swing traders, but if they tried to use those indicators and time frames to scalp they would go broker no matter what mindset or money management they used.

[QUOTE=“gp00053;512140”]
I know 2 swing traders.

They are very successful swing traders [/QUOTE]

How much do they make?

Don’t know

How do you know they are very successful…

First of all not everyone equates success with money. Most people who don’t have any do. I don’t know what they look like with their pants off, but I believe their both men. The reference was their trading, not their stations in life

[QUOTE=“gp00053;512145”]

First of all not everyone equates success with money. Most people who don’t have any do. I don’t know what they look like with their pants off, but I believe their both men. The reference was their trading, not their stations in life[/QUOTE]

True… Generally in life money doesn’t equal success… But when specifically talking about trading… Then yes… Money equals success. That is how we quantify success in an activity that is 100% about making money.

That’s fine you can believe them… The credibility of using them as examples was based off them being ‘very successful’… I was curious tis all :wink:

Again that might be how you define success in trading but most successful long term traders will tell you “Successful” is when you execute your method; with proper money management; using the mindset of patience and discipline. Money, freedom, love what you do etc are all by-products. That’s what everyone says anyway.

[QUOTE=“gp00053;512155”]

Again that might be how you define success in trading but most successful long term traders will tell you “Successful” is when you execute your method; with proper money management; using the mindset of patience and discipline. Money, freedom, love what you do etc are all by-products. That’s what everyone says anyway.[/QUOTE]

You can execute a method; with proper money management; using the mindset of patience and discipline… And still lose all the money in your trading account… I’m pretty sure no one would consider that trader successful.

If the trader isn’t making money off of trading… He isn’t successful. Money is the foundation… You can add other requirements if you want (being disciplined… Using money management, etc.) but if the money isn’t there, then neither is the success.

Okay you’re right.

I will agree with you though partially… I wouldn’t consider EVERY trader who is making money to be successful.

Lol, yes this is one of weird things that many people claim. Also ridiculous is the “I don’t trade with indicators because they are lagging, I trade price action (pinbars and the like) and naked charts” not realising that they are lagging as well. It especially grinds my gears when ‘gurus’ paint this picture because it shows up the gurus complete lack of understanding.

Agreed… Successful at following a trading plan is not equal to being a successful trader. Making money is an absolute MUST to be a successful trader. The “how much?” question might be less relevant (unless its a percentage of equity of course).

But even the news is a “lagging indicator”. In the end, lagging is all we have to work with.

Really agree with your post mate.

Cheers

Indicators are there for a reason. When I first started learning Forex; indicators seemed as elusive as a new planet that hadn’t been discovered yet. After learning and learning and reading over and over, it finally started to click. Most if not all Trade practitioners will tell you that all trends, support and resistance rely on past events, or past support and resistance levels. And that is what they base there trades on, past levels. Most if not all indicators are based on past events, 20 day moving average, RSI, EMA, and on and on. They all have a different function and no two are exactly the same. Stochastic and RSI are good for overbought and oversold conditions as well as spotting trends. So as it is with all other indicators, they all have there purpose. There math formulas are based on past opening and closing prices as well as highs and lows. check out the math formulas sometime, and you will understand indicators better, not that you have to, you don’t. Whether you like math or not it will make it easier to understand. You can also use indicators as filters, if they aren’t working for you, but I can’t explain that, you will have to find out for yourself what filtering does or is. Many supply and demand traders use past support and resistance levels. I use supply and demand as well as some indicators to verify overbought and oversold conditions. Been pretty accurate so far, but I am not doing any trading yet, I still got some kinks to work out. But, it makes since to me!

I found that as well For me anyways when I looked at say at the different trend indicators, I found that by the time I was ready to choose a trend indicator, I knew a lot more about trends generally , enabling me to make a better choice more suited to the type of trader I am and trading I’m doing. Same for momentum and cycle. (For my purposes I define cycle as swings high and low; low and high.)

As you progress in learning again at least for me I don’t use the same indicators I started with, (although I still use many of them) as you get more experience you may want to use more custom indicators, for example, MACD, I started with it, now I use a custom MACD; it goes the other way as well. When I started I used Moving Average of Oscillators, I don’t anymore. As you said they all have a purpose even if it’s only to verify what you are thinking of doing.

I am no expert on indicators or trading, Newbie here, but you can get pretty close to price action, momentum that is. I currently use average true range for getting close. But there are so many I guess it is personnel opinion. Swing high and lows are probably about as close as you can get to current trend direction.

Indicators are like any tools. I can give a toolbox to an experienced mechanic, or give the same exact toolbox to my dysfunctional, compulsive next door neighbor, I’ll get 2 different opinions on how effective the tools were. Yes you can trade on price action alone, nothing wrong with that at all, but indicators do have their place, especially in momentum trading.
Indicators are much more effective if they complement another type of analysis. Ellioticians and Harmonic pattern traders will tell you that.