Read my post again.
I didn’t say we shouldn’t have mentors.
I am saying that we should (eventually) learn to let go of them.
Read my post again.
And I’m disagreeing. You should always have one.
And I’m not surprised that you are disagreeing.
Good for you.
im disagreeing with the way MG is disagreeing with the way you are disagreeing with him.
Yes, it is great for me for I surround myself with great people.
To me a mentor should be some one who would able to find out our problem accurately so that we would not do the same mistake over again and again.
I agree, it is hard to find out such a mentor but those who are our mentor, we should expect this type of behavior from them. It is not our fault or too much expectations.
I always seem to come back to the same age old question. If a mentor is so good at trading, why waste time mentoring?
I realise that’s probably a bit naive
For me, there would have to be a direct, personal relationship. At some point, any student of trading is going to have to place their own money on the line. If that is to be done following trading advice from a mentor, then there has to be trust there, both in the person and in the strategy used.
My own view, as an extension of that, is that a largely anonymous, international Internet forum is the wrong place to fund a trading mentor in the pure sense of the word, as there will always be a detachment in the relationship.
I had a coach/mentor, he still mentors me in a less formal capacity. I know him personally, all of our 1-1 coaching was in person, we know a lot of personal detail about one another’s lives, we’re friends and we trust one another. In terms of the trading, I have seen him place trades live countless times, he has critiqued my trades, I have seen his live trades play out, have seen him both win and lose. I have seen a lot of his trading for years. We’re friends, and I know for 100% fact that he can well, knows what he is talking about, and makes money.
Any mentor relationship that is restricted to Internet discussion can never really have that 100% certainty to it. There can be belief, there can be videos, whatever, but in terms of knowing someone in the round, in terms of seeing them sit down for a few hours in front of the charts and look for opportunities, then take the ones they like and see the good and the bad trades play up - for me, that can’t be replicated on BP.
That is not to say that there is no place for the guru threads: many on here offer great advice and a cohesive, contextualised trading approach. But there is no true, rounded personal relationship, so there will always have to be an element of faith on the part of the student. There will always be grey areas, unexplained areas, limited oversight of the host’s own trading, ultimately it is a collection of ideas and advice but not a true mentoring relationship. Without that personal connection there will always be an element of faith, and limited consequences for the mentor should they not convert their mentees into successful traders. Even videos etc can be open to interpretation. Context is everything in life. Is £50,000 a lot of money? Depends whom you ask. Is person A justified in punching person B in the face and repeating that when they try to get up? Depends on the circumstances. Is a 5% win in one day indicative of a good trader? Depends what he or she posted for the other 364 days that year.
My mentor proved himself to me, in person, one on one, over a period of years. I know that he can trade, I have replicated his style, added some of my own preferences, and I know that I can trade. I’ll do it forever more, as will he. Could I give anyone that level of knowledge and proven belief over a BP thread? No, that’s why I don’t have one.
For me, this site is great for having virtual colleagues, making some friends, sharing ideas, and exploring generic aspects of trading. But would I expect to come here and form that one key relationship that, on its own, could give me a skill from a standing start that would give me the ability to earn good money forever more using just an Internet connection and some stake money? No.
There is a difference between knowledge and belief. I know that my mentor is a good person and can trade. Followers of people like ICT - and, even, supports of, say, Lance Armstrong, Oscar Pistorius, Tiger Woods etc - believe them to be everything they claim to be, without actually knowing. I’ll go on faith in some areas if my life, absolutely, but this is serious. It’s business. It’s my house, my kids’ futures, my wife’s investment in sharing her life with. So I don’t muck about, I don’t go on blind faith, I man up and take it seriously. Which means going beyond doubt before I advocate someone. Going all in on some guy I can’t properly research on an Internet discussion group? Not enough.
I want to be a billionaire, so frickin’ bad - with stakes that high, I need to know, not believe.
Because trading can be very solitary and some people enjoy the process. I put time into others for no gain. If I can teach you something that you use to pay for a holiday for you and your entire family to wherever you want, then I’ve had a great day.
If you’re talking about actually making money in this business then you require the services of one or more individuals who can walk that walk every day, every month with real money on the line, delivering results in a totally transparent manner, who also possess the ability to transfer that knowledge, skill, education & experience across in a way that you’re going to be able to absorb & assimilate.
That last part is the most crucial & critical piece of the jigsaw.
To even begin attracting that type of candidate (in a place such as this) you’re going to have to either be smart enough to manoeuvre yourself into a position where someone worth their salt would even consider investing their time & effort in you, or showcase the type of qualities that would encourage their interest.
You don’t run the rule over that type of candidate.
They run the rule over you.
If they’re going to invest in you they’re going to want to see some potential.
Perhaps the question you should be asking yourself is whether you’re presenting & exhibiting the qualities that would attract that type of candidate in the first place.
No the analogy is correct. A mentor doesn’t need to be a good trader himself to show you how to become a good trader. There are also mental coaches for traders. They don’t have to be traders, but they know how to keep your mind focused. A mentor teaches you something, either (in this case) how to identify profitable entries and exits. But that doesn’t mean that they NEED to be able to handle the stress of trading.
You can need more than one mentor when trading. 1. The analyst(identify trade set-ups) 2. The trader (to learn the trade execution. 3. The accountant (to learn you money management).
You want to have all three in one. This is a bit odd as Traders aren’t necessarily also good analists or accountants, they just good at trade execution. If you find someone who has all three skills, excellent! But this doesn’t cut out all other specialists who may excel in one of the other skills where your Trader is maybe only ‘decent’ at all three of them.
I consider the expedition guide as the person who has all three skills, but with one limitation: They only good in the area where she is hired for. You wouldn’t hire a expedition leader with mountain experience to lead an expedition in the dessert. A geography teacher can also tell you other areas that are of interest (a bit black and white but I hope you understand what I mean), depending on your requirements.
You are in a very fortunate position to know someone like that, I suppose thats what we would all like.
By the way, its the second time today I hear those three sporting heroes mentioned in the same sentence, I guess we are all thinking the same thing.
Good to see you peep your head outside of HOG’s thread after a long a while, is the air clear now lol.
Let’s keep it simple guys…
Show me your fxbook or bugger off!
That’s my main requirement for any so called Mentor / Teacher / Guru whatever you want to call it, So yes, if you want to offer your services paid or free to me, I will be asking you this
HOG, I think that is even a more important answer… But don’t rule them out on first instance…
- They may like teaching others (I come from a teachers family myself and I know that feeling to help others to learn stuff)
- They may be looking for more social interaction
- They may be looking for more prestige and confirmation
- They may be ex-professional traders who tried to trade for themselves, but couldn’t handle the stress of trading their own money
- They may do it to pay reduced tax on their trading. In the Netherlands trade profit is considered income when it is a significant part of your yearly salary. This means you have to pay +40 tax on it. If it is relative smaller than your income, they charge you only 2% tax. So there are stock traders in the Netherlands trying to make a good living of being a mentor to avoid the higher tax cut.
- Being a trader doesn’t give you all the perks as someone with a normal job has (getting a loan at the bank, unemployment benefits, etc) but when they can claim to be a professional coach with a salary this changes things.
- It may help them to excel in their own trading as their is social pressure to continue trading or they lose the prestige.
But I would look out for mentors that actively promote themselves. These are probably not the guys that are genuinely in it to help you out, but to make money from it. Like Antony Robbins, he is a professional mentor, but he doesn’t do 1-on-1s anymore. He leaves that to associates, so that he can continue promoting his brand. He doesn’t care, he doesn’t know who you are, but you want him to mentor you as you believe him, not one of his associates.
I tried to delete my post, but you beat me to it.
I misunderstood/ misread whatever. In fact I have a virus today and have been very jumpy.
Apologies man. I hope you are not offended by my rudeness, I’m not normally this confrontational and for no reason too.
anyway, if I showed you my trade history you would have a really good laugh.
It would be the REAL REASON NOT TO TRADE hahaha
And that is so silly… Who would profit more from free mentorship? The mentor or his pupil? So why does the mentor need to proof stuff? To convince you to be his pupil?
I am sorry, but that sounds naive. You’ll be missing out when that is your genuine attitude towards mentors. Did you ask your highschool teacher to proof he is legit or did you ask the school to proof it? Did you learn from them without having this proof?
Now I think of it… The ‘mentors’ providing proof didn’t seem to be genuine in teaching you as a person. So if you only follow mentors that provide proof, you will be in for some unhealthy mentor/student relationships…
A reputation, yes…
Ha ha! No worries mate! I’m not the best health wise either, which might explain my short to the point comment
Hope you get better soon buddy!
Well I’m sorry but in my world that argument doesn’t stack up.
Proof of a successful trading record should be the base requirement, then one can build on that. It doesn’t guarantee a successful mentor but should be one of the foundations mentor ship (or whatever you wish to call it)
It will hopefully clean out the bulk of the riffraff…
If I was going to be your driving instructor, but couldn’t even prove I could drive & can’t even show you a license would you be naive to doubt my ability to even drive let alone teach?
I trusted the education department’s screening & selection of qualified teachers, it was proof enough considering that we have a sound education system in our community.