This was a recent thought which hit me as I’m a harmonic trader, not that it makes a large impact but I’m curious about how it works as I’m currently struggling to find comprehensive explanations elsewhere.
Any help would be appreciated 
[quote=“MoneyMan1601, post:1, topic:136497”] What’s the difference between a Fib retracement a trend-based Fib retracement?
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One is completely random nonsense, pure and simple.
The other is also random nonsense, but filtered by a directional bias determined by the direction of the current or immediately previous trend, which makes it statistically less likely to do damage to your account, overall.
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Thanks for replying, but do you not believe in Fibonacci? do you not think they could be used as extra confluence in your chartwork?
I don’t.
I replied very glibly - sorry.
I think all the “evidence” for its “validity” is highly selected and anecdotal and biased.
I’ve also once or twice seen some purportedly objective, independent studies where the levels were “shown” not to be any more significant than randomly selected ones.
I’m just not a “believer” at all, sorry.
(I still probably shouldn’t have replied as I did, though!).
I think “extra confluence” is sometimes quite a questionable issue in itself, that raises a lot of questions, too, to be honest.
I’m not really into trading from indicators and trying to use one kind to “confirm” what another kind purport to show you. I think people get misled by it, to quite a large degree. This “constant search” (for many people) distracts them from other, better, more useful, more interesting things, IMO.
Not sure I can justify my views, though, or persuade anyone “searching” that way.
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@MoneyMan1601
hi mate, let me provide another point of view… ok
re this
Now here is what you need to understand (in my opinion)
-
@LaughingCharlie is an intelligent bloke and has his points of views… just accept that for now
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the word “BELIEVE” is not the right word to use here, it suggests a religious aspect to it
if i asked you… do you not believe in gravity, it would sound strange
if i asked you , do you not understand that gravity exists, it obviously suggests that BELIEF is not an option, it’s just a question of IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE YOU ARE WRONG
but, Fib is not like that
The Fibonacci sequence is something that was discovered and found TO HAVE A LOT OF APPLICATIONS IN THE REAL WORLD, but not in every single circumstance
NOW. you go over to tradind and understand that some people REALLY WANT TO BELIEVE that an indicator works, meaning… when it doesn’t, they tell themselves it’s because of this and because of that.
but when it hits the level perfectly, they say… SEE IT WORKS
so you have this level of confusion as well
it is for these reasons that in forex, because Fib is not an exact science and people lie to themselves, that you will not win the debate with Charlie over this
on top of that charlie has his own opinion of this stuff
Me Personally,… i think Fibonacci has a time and a place, but like charlie, i am also a believe in PROVING THE VALIDITY OF THINGS, not just listening to people who tell me “bro, this works, … use it”
so to answer
YES THEY COULD
but… You have to prove that they are ACTUALLY PRODUCING CONFLUENCE and that it is not just you BSing yourself
i use them, but on certain time frames only
i have found a lot of the time that the levels are respected, so i personally do use them.
but again, this does not negate charlies point,
Charlie has a very valid point at the end of the day
the bottom line is … it’s not for everyone
as for the difference between Fib Retracement and Trend based
Mate, Honestly… i don’t even think there is a point to answering this question
and … if you know the answer…WHAT THEN
What will it prove
What will you do from there, knowing the differences
in my opinion this is like a asking a question like, what is the difference between a black dog and a white dog
DOES IT MATTER ? how does it help you to know the difference
in my experience, and opinion
all you need to do is this
test if fib works for you, don’t overcomplicate your life with BS Definitions of this and that and whatever else
KEEP IT SIMPLE
the point is to be profitable and make money
If Fib is this complicated for you and requires this much effort, PERHAPS IT’S NOT WORTH USING THAT INDICATOR
consider that
I know I’m going to regret this ¬ 
Firstly “Fibonacci” was a bloke - he existed - ergo - he is true.
Now he invented a number system 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34…etc based on simply adding the last two numbers together. and did some arithmetical gymnastics to produce spirals and decimals, which some believe has a place in the natural world and can produce evidence to validate. Others believe there are enough exceptions to invalidate that point of view.
Now we know that the markets move in waves and that the waves are driven by human psychology and this can be influebced by fundamentals, accidents and manipulation.
Our job is to forecast the movement - ie to try to assess the psychology of the punters, what accidents are likely to occur and what manipulators may wish to achieve.
Things like “Gann squares” “Fans” “Elliot waves” “Bollinger bands” “Magic T’s” “Delta Phonomena”, “Bradley siderographs” “Fibonacci retracements / extensions” “Trend lines” and “Support and resistance”, “Gartley Patterns” “Box breakouts” are all attempts to rationalise and forecast these waves of psychology and to make a profit by aligning our trading with our forecasts.
Do I believe in “Fibs” ? well I do know that some (.5, .618, 1.00 for example ) are good levels to bear in mind and even Gann with his 1/2, 5/8, 1.00 etc had siimlilar levels in mind, and you can see how a 50% retracement for example would tend to either panic sellers into further selling, or reassure buyers that it is a good time to buy. Whether that is true and how it works in any particular wave is a matter of how strong the emotion of the participants is at that point in time and how determined the manipulators are to achieve their aims (and indeed what those aims might be ! )
Whether “Fibs” will work for you depends on YOUR psychology, but my advice would be to bear a few of the major ones in mind but not to get too Anal about them. If the help you to gain more pips than you lose, then yes they are helpful when you are learning to play this - what I believe it was “Wyckoff” called "THE GREATEST GAME IN THE WORLD "
STudy hard, keep an open mind, trade Demo and develop your own system to suit your OWN psychology ! 
[Edit - Oh I forgot “Moving Averages” btw - doh ! 
]
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@Falstaff
Ohhh, you have no idea buddy hehehe
Nah… Just kidding 
i actually agree with a lot of that.
hence…
yes, this is correct
yes this is correct
yes this is correct
NOW. I LIKE THIS POINT…
this is a very interesting point, and i do agree with it , for the record… VERY VERY GOOD POINT INDEED.
and i liked this point as well
yes , indeed they are
but the big question is , when one rationalizes it, is that Rational based on fantasy or Fact…
that is the question and then to mess with the newbies head a little more
if one decides that it’s based on fact
HOW DOES ONE KNOWN IF THEY MERELY BELIEVE IT TO BE FACT BUT ARE REALLY LYING TO THEMSELVES hehe
at times like this one can only really end the conversation by saying “at the end of the day we are in the Matrix” hehe
it’s definitely something that needs to be seriously considered, that’s for sure
and the end of the debate always ends , as you stated
NICE POST MATE.
Thank you Martin, What I forgot to mention was that "Fibanacci numbers were originally derived from observations of the real world, in that they were a forecast to explain the increase in Rabbit population numbers !
Whether that lends any weight to them I don’t know ! and whether the breeding habits of Rabbits has any effect on merchant bankers I don’t know either.
You’re Welcome mate.
that’s correct
well… CLEARLY… IT DOES
i mean… it couldn’t be more obvious 
some of them do indeed own rabbits
the proofs in the pudding mate
it’s all there mate
it’s the VIBE, i mean … it’s rabbits, it’s Mabo , it’s fibonacci … yeah… it’s the vibe
and a vibe is a frequency and a frequency moves in cycles and the market moves in cycles…
so… YEAH… THERE YOU GO MATE
now mate, i know you’re a skeptic
so… i’ll show you the vibe
please observe EURUSD H4
- here we can see the “RISING RABBIT EARS” which CLEARLY (as dicated by “THE VIBE”) is followed by a Bullish movement
and
- You’ll notice that the 100% and the 0% perfectly respect the price levels, again… THE VIBE
and you’ll notice that the bottom of the rabbit ears, came to find support on the 61.8% level, Now mate, that’s not just hocus pocus, it’s THE VIBE
its’ the vibe, it’s fibonacci, it’s the Rising Rabbit Ears, it’s Mabo… yeah… it’s the vibe
I REST MY CASE
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Fibonacci MY hero…
I Have his First Book which was lost years ago Don’t ask how i got it…!!!
It makes fascinating read,
I would like to go see his statue 1 Day as i believe when he changed Roman Numerals “liber abaci”
He Created all this Thus allowing Us all to make money…
God rest your soul leo of pissa…
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Well, copied it from the Asians and claimed it. Close enough.
Made Better then. … I;m aware of its Origins.
.still did you do anything thats gonna go in history…?
This indicator is a strange thing for me. A lot of traders try to avoid it, as I do. However, a lot of them manage to find pros as well. The Italian mathematician has done a lot of work on this, but as for me, this sequence doesn’t always work on forex.