I think our discussion has highlighted that in any exchange there are points of convergence but also of divergence: I am happy with that, because your points have raised some important issues.
However, discussion is not about convincing the other side of every argument: all you can do is explain your view, as you have done, and hope that the other side will find common ground in at least one of your points.
I disagree fundamentally that we do not have a problem, historically, of men’s violence against themselves (i.e. suicide), other men, women, and children: you just cannot keep coming back with counter-arguments when men’s actions, including those of high-profile people like Jimmy Savile, Harvey Weinstein, paedophile bishops and Robert Mugabe are clearly unacceptable. If you keep saying that we are making up a narrative of female victimhood you are missing the point.
We, men, should not come up with counter-arguments of male victimhood but rather ourselves march on the streets and demand an end to war, to men being rapists and violent, and start support groups to encourage men to gather and discuss male violence in the home and away.
Instead, we dump the issue of male violence on women groups and activists and call it ‘women’s issues’. That is also what this thread is about: to take personal responsibility and do something to raise awareness in here of the effects of the worst aspects of male behaviour…