Project 84 Wins 7 awards - 12 Men kill themselves today in uk!

The Lobby
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Project 84 as Publicised by ITV This Morning Programme back in March, won 2 Gold Lions, 4 Silver Lions and a Bronze over the weekend for this ;

https://www.itv.com/thismorning/hot-topics/project-84-we-join-the-campaign-to-prevent-male-suicide

That’s 84 in UK alone - there are 168 hours in a week, you do the arithmetic !

The 12 on top of “Studio 8” represent “Today’s 12 !”

There is a Petition on the Project 84 website, to demand that the Uk Govt appoint a minister, if anyone cares to sign it.

The feminists were somewhat disturbed by the situation it seems ;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5544451/Controversial-Project-84-art-installation-representing-male-suicide.html

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Interesting read, Falstaff! :open_mouth: Thank you. :smiley:

I think this is such a powerful installation, although I also understand how it could make some people uncomfortable. :frowning: I think discomfort is a good thing when it comes to talking about issues like this :cold_sweat: because only then would people really go out and talk about it. :frowning:

Have you seen this installation in person? :slight_smile:

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That’s really a powerful message. It’s very sad to know just how many men take their lives each week. :cry:

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Iagree with you @ria_rose - Thank you for your comments. :sunglasses:

No I haven’t seen them in person, they are gone now I believe, Only lasted a few days or a week or so. But I was watching “Good morning TV” when the news of the statues broke !

It would never have been allowed on BBC of course !

I’ve noticed a huge change on ITV recently - Male suicide, surrogate mothers and the rights of all the parties - All in one story line on Coronation street, Ditto Male rape, Sex-slavery, police corruption (ish) Psychopathy - the list goes on and on - and ALL on "Corrie! ":astonished:

But as you say “powerful” one man commits suicide every 2 hours night and day in Britain alone !

79% of all “disappearances” and 86% of all rough sleepers in the Uk are men !

I don’t know whether the figures even exist for Europe and USA ! They seem to be even further behind in recognising this MAJOR problem !

Thank you @ria_rose :relaxed:

[edit - thank you the more, because I believe your own gender has issues of equality in your own country ? - understanding and compassion from one so young - there may just be hope for the world yet ! :slight_smile:]

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Yes it is isn’t it ?

Yet in a website which is believed to have a predominently male membership of "Quite a lot " ! - There are only two responders so far to this thread, and one of them is a girl ! :slight_smile:

I wonder why ?

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It’s actually my pleasure, Falstaff. :blush: I appreciate every opportunity to discuss things that seem to be pushed aside by society. :frowning: These figures are really alarming and I could only imagine how long it took to spark the discussion about something as real and serious as this. :confounded: I haven’t looked into the specific figures for my country :frowning: (And to be honest, I’m a bit hesitant. since I’m pretty sure I’d see grim statistics :cry:)

It just makes me wonder, what do you think are the reasons for these figures in your country? :frowning: :frowning: I mean, I live in a third world country and it’s highly likely that poverty and injustices are pushing people to take their own lives. :cry: We believe that life in Western countries would always be better, happier, etc. :frowning:

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I wonder why too. :frowning: It would be very enlightening to see what the others have got to say about this. :frowning:

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Yes it would and I shall give them a chance to join in with their opinions before forming opinions of my own :slight_smile:

[Edit I’ve adjusted the title - to make teh subject clearer ]

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I think the problem is “cognitive dissonance” ria - people will go to extraordinary lengths to deny or avoid considering anything which appears contrary to their own opinion or viewpoint.

And we ALL "know"
Men are ;

Strong
Protectors
(or Abusers - depending on your own agenda )
providers
Unthinking
Don’t have emotional needs

And Women are;
Vulnerable
Weak
Nurturers
Need protecting
Have huge emotional needs

So the FACT that 12 more will commit suicide today, challenges those core beliefs because it shows men to be “Vulnerable” or “WEAK” from some viewpoints and in real need of support and understanding.

The facts are clear and I can only conclude that the FACT that they are so much ignored - Even by the men on this site, can only mean that it is just too painful for them to even THINK about it, because it “doesn’t fit” their preconcived ideas !

So another 12 will die today, another 12 tomorrow, another 12 on Sunday…

Just because our “Gender perception bias” is WRONG ! :rage:

As traders we should be able to know when we are wrong and just “Do something about it !”

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Does it not occur to you that maybe this is a topic that people are not willing to discuss openly on a site that is dedicated to forex?

For example, I (and my wife) have spent the best part of the last 20 years working both professionally and voluntarily with the direct family and relatives of young people who have died from criminal violence, suicide, drugs and serious illnesses - its what we do……but I would not discuss this here, sorry!

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As you know I have great respect for you in many ways and your disclosure here increases that. However, surely by bringing into the open the fact that this is happening and trying to find some sort of preventative action would mean that your work would be reduced, some of those relatives may not need your intervention and a significant number of lives could just be saved. Something perhaps to be lauded rather than criticised ?

I think that I am keeping to the letter and spirit of the rules by posting in the Lobby. The fact that this forum is frequented by a great many men and probably a lesser number of women any of whom may have their lives affected by this issue at any time, renders it important as a subject.

(indeed over the years I myself have lost two friends in this way ! )

There have been a good many references to “Men as abusers” in several threads without criticism, including in the long running “female traders” thread and speaking of us (men) as vulnerable for a change, may not fit with the preconceived ideas of some - hence my point about cognitive dissonance.

There have also been a number of threads about “mass shootings” and “Gun crime” where it has been established that by far the greatest amount of “Gun crime” is by men committing suicide. Why this discussion should be any less appropriate than those subjects - I am unsure.

You may right that many are disturbed by this issue - so perhaps they should look to their own preconceived ideas about gender roles, rather than criticising a thread intended to right a clear and disgraceful wrong in pointing out that men are vulnerable too !

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I was not in any way criticising the topic - just suggesting that others may simply not find this the most appropriate place where they would want to discuss this…purely in response to the inference that “we” are either not interested or too blinded by our preconceptions to participate.

But, in general, in societies where nowadays most people die in hospitals or institutions, death is sanitised out of normal life as something that always happens to others. We live an existence with an assumption that the norm is to be happy, fit and live a problem-free life for at least as long as the foreseeable future.

For many, this kind of discussion is a kind of taboo that uncomfortably distorts and challenges that assumption. Reality is something totally different. If we were to lift the roofs off all the houses in any community and look down on the private lives of those inside then (apart from being arrested) we would see that all is far from well in many, many ways. It is just not the done thing to admit it……………

But that’s it, that’s my bit done! :slight_smile:

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This reminds me of how Terry Crews’s sexual assault statement was taken by people. It’s horrible. I actually took the time to look up the reactions on Twitter and wow, society in general truly just can’t seem to accept that sexual assault/harassment can also happen to men - even ones who are big and muscular. The lack of empathy is astounding.

If you’ve ever met someone who’s sexist, have you been able to change their mind successfully? I’ve always wondered if people who are SO set in their ways have the capability to change their point of view. I mean, I know they can but how many of them actually will and how much effort would it take? Do threads like this help? Social media campaigns? Or do those just make them double down on their beliefs?

BTW, @Falstaff, the video you linked to keeps asking if I’m in the ITV region. I’m unable to watch it, unfortunately.

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Not sure about that - @ria_rose says she can see it and she’s in the Philipines ! :sunglasses:

[Edit - try searching "project 84 " - that should get you in a different way - surely “youtube” has an implant ? ]

[Edit 2 - can you still see it @ria_rose ? ]

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I agree with you on the gender perception bias. :cry: I think people end up taking their own lives, trying to free themselves from the gendered boxes created for them by the society. :frowning: We’ve always had this idea of what a man and what a woman should be, that we forget that things don’t really work like that. :frowning: Any deviance to the preconceived image is considered as a sign of weakness or dysfunctionality. :sweat:

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I hope I did not offend you in any way. :frowning: If I did, I’m very sorry. :frowning: I respect people’s opinions and I understand if most of our members are not very comfortable in discussing this topic. :confounded: I just thought it would be enlightening to also hear what others have to say. I didn’t mean to impose. Super sorry. :frowning:

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Just tried it now, Falstaff, and it’s weird cause I can no longer view it! :confounded: I wonder why but there’s also the ITV thingy that pops up. Huhu. It’s available on YT though. :slight_smile:

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No offence there - I was just pointing out that silence is not necessarily evidence of being guilty of disinterest or a callous heart - nor does it prove that people lack empathy.

Suicide is a very sensitive issue for many people and raises all kinds of feelings in addition to grief and trauma. People close to suicide cases often feel guilt, confusion, bitterness and even anger.They will not necessarily wish to express and display these most private of feelings on a net forum - especially when they are immediately exposed to the possibility of some nasty troll-like responses - afterall, you have yourself talked about the anguish created by social media talk.

As for the story that started this thread, I do not personally agree with that approach at all. I find it gimmicky and in the realm of sensationalism that is more in the interests of the creators than those it is supposed to be helping. I also find it destructive in nature because it only serves to further numb the attitudes of the masses to the problem and erodes the general concern. It is human nature that when such a stunt is created it causes an immediate shock reaction, but when it is seen a second time it no longer shocks, it only reminds - and then when it is repeated a third time, people just walk on by………

Every time a shock tactic is used it means an even greater shock tactic has to be applied next time to create the same degree of reaction. Just as in wartime, the first bombings, the first casualties, etc are horrific - but then the mind protects itself and numbs out the horror and just deals with it.

There are also people that are just angry with people who commit suicide. They see it as a kind of crime and their own fault and argue that they have no right to subject innocent people, such as those that happen to find them, to the shock and trauma that will haunt them for life. They also will accuse them of wasting public funds and the resources of the emergency services, etc! This is a very complex issue. it is no joy ride to find someone who has hung themselves or blown their head off or taken an overdose. But it goes even further in cases where innocent third parties are involved, for example, when someone drives their car into an oncoming lorry or, as in a recent case here, into an oncoming car in which two 17 year olds died and the suicidal guy survived.

Yes, I totally agree that suicide is a major issue and that it urgently needs serious application of resources to finding and resolving the causes. But, in societies where funds are always limited and require a choice between various causes, there will always be people who will favour medical research into, for example, cancer than helping reduce suicide - but that is also their right to an opinion.

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Interesting @ria_rose that it has been freely viewable throughout the world March, April, May and most of JUne - until just a few days after the Project won those 7 awards at Cannes.

In the interests of fairness and to avoid appearing to imply some “conspiracy theory” tho’ I should point out also that it COULD be connected to the EU’s fairly recent “Regulations” regarding “keeping personall information on databases” which seems to preclude us from accessing some Websites which are not based in the Uk.

What I consider to be the argument that male suicide should not be mentioned in polite society and frowning on the use of “shock tacticts” is best answered I think on the Project website itself ; (emphasis is mine )

[The STATISTICS are shocking. Every two hours a man in the UK takes his own life. Male suicide and mental health is a big issue that can’t be ignored any longer. It’s unacceptable that so many men are dying from suicide on a daily basis, yet so few people are talking about it.]

https://www.projecteightyfour.com/

I disagree with the postulation that we can “Spend” our way out of MALE suicide.

It is the perception of “Males” as people which is wrong and we are taught from our mother’s knee ;

"Sugar and spice and all things nice - that’s what little girls are made of :relaxed:
Slugs and Snails and puppy dog’s tails - that’s what little boys are made of … :confounded: "

Why are people indoctrinating 3 year old kids with rubbish like that ?

What needs to change is the dogma and constant repetition of disinformation against men like ;

“Men are child abusers"
and
"Men are responsible for IPV (Intimate Partner Violence)”

It’s ok saying “They should seek help” - but where from ? Where are the “Men’s Refuges” ? - That excuse for not caring ; “they should seek help” - is simply a cop-out - Blaming the Victim !

Anyway, in conclusion of this post, I mention that the thread is now 7 days old - 1 week - another 84 menwho have died unreported ! in true "ministry of truth " fashion ;

“…In the cubicle next to him the little woman with sandy hair toiled day in day out, simply at tracking down and deleting from the Press the names of people who had been vaporized and were therefore considered never to have existed. And this hall, with its fifty workers or thereabouts, was only one-sub-section, a single cell, as it were, in the huge complexity of the Records Department. Beyond, above, below, were other swarms of workers engaged in an unimaginable multitude of jobs…”

http://www.orwelltoday.com/truth.shtml

And still we are advocated “not to mention this in polite society”

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Ohhh. I wasn’t aware of this. :thinking: Reading through the first sentence, I thought to myself. “Hmm. :thinking: It makes sense that they probably don’t want the whole world to be talking about these alarming statistics, especially after the project has gained quite the attention.”

BUT I also don’t want to make up any conspiracy theory :sweat_smile: so I also see that the new regulations could have really affected the article’s accessibility.

You know what? It actually made me think that somehow, I want these “regulations” in our country as well. :frowning: