Well I thought I was clear, but responses from some suggest that I am simply banging my head against a brick wall expecting them actually to read what I am saying before they respond. Tang’s input was entertaining, but also showed up how distressingly easily one’s counterparts in a discussion can be distracted from what one is actually saying.
Anyway, on that note, my tea is ready!
I get what you meant HOG. I agree…It is sometimes too much now… and no need to open another thread like that.
I already thank ICT for his work and depend him from other thread and I think that’s all I can do. When I see another discussion like this, it makes me more exhausting than analyzing my trades. It is just too much and need to stop.
As I grow as a trader … I am more than willing to take a look other people technique, method, ideas, system, and more fundamental analysis. You never know, I might find another “gold” to add into my collections 
I think we need to start or create other “meaningful” topic that we can all benefit from other than this non sense…and please no more “hookers”
Cheers Everyone!!
Tea, what a good idea.
Funny thing though since you mention responses being made towards your good self. On my many travels throught he site today, I did indeed stumble across mention of the phrase “sock-puppeting”.
I can’t remember where I saw it but I’m sure you’ll probably know. Anyway, it’s not really important where, the point is, me and Mrs HoG used to play the sock-puppet game before we had kids. That’s WHY we have kids.
But I’m guessing that’s not the same thing as the one mentioned on the forum
Well, I see a lot of complaining but not a lot of suggestions to improve (Apart from: this has to stop!). Does anyone have a realistic suggestion to make it better for the young and the old ones here? Do the moderators have an opinion on this, do they know about the complaints?
I am afraid that when there will be no active moderation on this matter the only solution is to “Live and let Live, or move on”.
At the moment I don’t see a lot of ICT adapts participating in this discussion. They probably busy continue doing what you don’t like. Forming fronts will not be the solution and will only result in more disrespect to each other.
I went on the hunt and dug this out so I could show you PipNRoll, it’s from NikitaFX’s “…For Dummies” thread:
I sometimes wonder if I will ever make it in trading, mainly due to the points highlighted above. You see, I enjoy the interaction on this forum PnR, but even I am aware that the time I spend on here is wasted time.
It’s a social outing, a place to meet. When I first came here, SimonTemplar, RCarter and I talked about a pub you could go to to have a few beers and then go upstairs to the trading room and share your trading knowledge and make actual trades. that was the birth of the Trader’s Arms threads.
I would dearly love a place like that, I even contacted my broker once, as I have mentioned recently, and asked if it would be possible to have a multi access demo account, whereby 5 or 6 people could form an on-line “trading club” sharing their ideas and thoughts and all coming together to trade the same account. I thought this would be a great way for people to learn together. Unfortunately my broker does not allow these types of demo account.
But the point is, while we, the ones who DON’T trade for a living, are busy posting on here, we are losing what I read someone (my apologies because I can’t remember who said it or where) describe today as "our most valuable asset, time itself.
Now I could give you 4 names in particular who have, since I first arrived here, been only too willing to give me good, constructive advice. SimonTemplar, Yunny1, RCarter and a guy who’s not here now called Buckscoder. Always gave good advice.
Yes there is the ICT stuff that some find helpful. Niki’s thread is a great one and there are a few other good reads. But the trouble is that we are human and tend to be distracted too often by the endless supply of Sh** that also gets posted.
So in reality, how do we combat this. Do we think we MUST come here, for where else would we learn? Or have we just become lazy, or scared of the unknown enough to stay put?
I’ve told one particular friend on this site a few times that I was ready to quit it for a couple of reasons.
However well intentioned the advice, sometimes it influences your trading decisions and you may take a trade you probably wouldn’t have otherwise. that’s NOT you thinking on your own.
It’s a distraction from learning. RCarter once commented that nothing beats screen time for learning. I’m in the fortunate position where I can set up a little laptop at my work and even in the last couple of weeks of constantly watching charts I’m getting a little better at seeing things.
For me, the ONLY worthwhile new topic, would be a constantly on-line live channel where you could go to and discuss trading and make live trades together as a small group as a learning tool. Then, when we’re all big boys and girls and feel confident enough to make it on our own, we could waddle away from the nest.
This place is fine and well for the guys and girls who already trade for a living and can “afford” ( in terms of time) to spend time on here. The reality for the rest of us though is, that if you’re not learning, you’re wasting time.
I have no doubt I will leave this forum in the New Year at some point, in search of some serious learning time. The problem with that though is there are a few people on here I’d really miss.
What a conundrum.
EDIT: And sorry, no more hookers LOL!!
Good point Toekan.
Just made a point in last post about “beginner’s trading clubs”.
Get 5 or 6 beginner’s together, give them a multi access account. One person each month (or week or two weeks) is in charge of hitting the buy or sell button. After the trade has been entered, that person must explain to the “club” WHY they made that decision.
No one can tell you NOT to make the trade. After the trade is finished you all have a chance to discuss it in a CIVIL manner and hopefully learn as a group.
Haven’t got a bloody clue how you would go about setting it up mind you, but you didn’t ask that LOL!!
OK HoG
I agree too with your point regarding sometimes not following your own trade rationale whilst discussing setups. It is something I have got better with lately though.
Anyway on with thread.
Love it…
I like that! Would it fit your plan when there is also an experienced trader account? Would be fun to see us being wiped out by the noobs…
Actually, why does BP not even have an FX fund that can be followed, participated in.
Ideal situation would involve an experienced trader. problem is that experienced traders are usually too busy trading for themselves, and may want “compensated” for the their time.
Idea of each individual little “trading group” would not be as a competition to see which individual made the most money, the whole point would be to discuss each trade, talk about the thinking behind it and hopefully grow as a group regardless of whether a trade was a winner or a loser
Yes its a nice alias to have. Anything that reminds of Pamela Anderson should be applauded though.
The Real Trader’s Arms
What seems like a million years ago (late 80’s and early 90’s) I actually belonged to something very similar to what you describe, an investment club. The focus was entirely on stocks though. Each member had an area of self-appointed “expertise” and at a monthly meeting would plead his case before the group for why his investment selection would be one of the chosen few that would make the portfolio that month and explain how he landed upon that decision.
It was quite educational in the days before high speed internet and easy online trading. It was a massive money loser and we eventually closed out the pittance that remained in the fund for a massive beer bash at the local bar we met at for “meetings” but it was where I initially learned to venture beyond mutual funds and actually learned a thing or two about trading. Most of it wrong, of course, since it was peer-to-peer teaching, one idiot to another, but it was fun and on occasion, informative.
The most valuable lesson learned was never make investment decisions after the fourth or fifth round of drinks.
I think you’ve just hit upon a fantastic idea for a sit-com JL LOL !!
EDIT: Anyway, going to bed now gang, take care all, goodnight.
Well I think you mention something that is indeed missing here… All there is is the school, forum and chat… But apparently there is a NEED that is being filled by you-know-who and there is no alternative available. The school provides basics in a static manner and on the forum stand-alone questions are answered and the questions are repeated almost daily. There is little challenge for the ‘Old guys/girls’ and not much complete and interactive things to go to for the ‘Young ones’.
The experienced ones aren’t as well as marketed as you-know-who, so how do they know where to go to discuss trading. There is a big red blinking arrow pointing towards you-know-who and the rest are just drowning in threads of newbies asking about a broker that don’t cheat them, give them a true ECN account that only requires a $300 deposit.
I wouldn’t mind to participate in such a live channel and share my xp. It is actually something I was looking for when I came to BP. Interaction with traders as there numbers around me are slim to none.
That’s a man that knows how to party like it’s the end of the world. And the timing is perfect because Hillary has a headache.
I don’t think that anyone is knocking what ICT does, there are just some dissenting voices saying that his teachings risk taking over the whole site, permeating too many threads, so the balance has gone. It is like a clique in the office, school, wherever - those of us who aren’t followers are on the outside and find it odd that it is basically impossible to avoid the chat and backslapping that surrounds his work. I don’t think that Toekan was saying that s/he wants to get the notoriety, I read the post more as an acknowledgement that there is a big market for what ICT offers.
Personally, I am not ‘pissy’ that a load of people love ICT, or that he has a popular thread, or any of that - I just personally don’t see why so many threads have to contain references/eulogies, including threads that aren’t even remotely relevant to his work (for example PPF popping up in a thread on training courses yesterday potshotting on behalf of ICT). Between that and ICT seemingly believing that he is the principal reason most people are attracted to BP it’s all just a bit much. If it were handled more like the previous gurus, ie. a thread where the followers hang out and do their thing then I (and presumably those who agree with me) wouldn’t mention ICT from one week to the next and the site could return to the happy state it had previously.
There is the Trader’s Arms 2nd Floor thread, for example, hosted by HoG. There is no guru, there, but the vibe can be similar in that it is a regular crew of posters who enjoy the thread, swap trading thoughts, posts charts, chat about in jokes, whatever - we enjoy it, and as we keep it mostly to the thread I think it’s positive that the thread exists for any who want to participate. If, however, we were to take it site-wide, pushing it at anyone who would listen, making constant references to it, and each time one of us popped up a few of our regular supporters piled in behind us, I imagine that we would start to wind up other site members who just weren’t into it, and we would all begin to look a little cliquey - which in my opinion is where we suddenly are with ICT’s group. Between his sticky, his millionaire traders thread, his Christmas present thread, various of his followers hosting their own sub-threads, the odd thank you for saving me ICT thread, persistent and constant exhortations for any new site member, and some of you (particularly PPF!) telling us that we’re basically missing the whole point of trading if we don’t join the club it’s all getting a bit much.
You can put the word ‘dedication’ in caps as much as you want, but that’s not what we’re saying, we’re not knocking ICT’s methods or his presence on the forum: as ever with life, how something is done is as important as what is done.
And please don’t assume that noone else helps rookie traders around here - I put in several hours a week responding to requests for coaching, assistance, advice etc on a range of aspects of trading, and I offer what help I can including detailed charts, feedback and explanation. I just do it via PM and email on a one-to-one basis as my own view is that we’re all different and will need particular help with different aspects of trading, plus will all need slightly different styles. Just because some of us are less showy than others, please don’t assume that ICT is the only one putting significant time into helping other traders. Some of us just don’t do it publicly, so don’t build a brand at the same time. Some of the sweeping statements and generalizations coming out of the ICT crew are contributing to the recent ‘them and us’ feel to BP, sadly.
Please don’t think I’m falling out with you - this is just important stuff and I want to be clear that we all understand one another. The stakes are pretty high here - a number of experienced members are considering their future at BP, looking at alternative fora, which would be a shame - so I think it important that if the two tribes are going to discuss this then we do it from a position of mutual understanding. So please take this post in the spirit intended!
Simon
Remarks from akeakamai proof that we are on the right path! Our guru had also people that were against him!
I’d say that there is no better day to start than today! The Maya’s predicted the start of a new era, with a lot of changes! They were talking about US! Let us value their prediction and act on this Omen! Let us change BP!
Come on fellow Honorary guys and Gals! To the battlefield! Let us go to the PUB!
Yes, I was in at the beginning of the ‘What every new or aspiring…’ thread a couple of years ago, as I think you were too? At the time I’d only recently completed the Babypips school and I did learn an awful lot from that thread and Michael’s videos. Those first presentations on mental approach, money management, basics of support/resistance and so on should - I think - be required viewing for any novice trader. So thanks ICT. You’ve given a lot to this place and helped many people on their way.
However, I am also one of the ‘we’ that ST talks of. I don’t think he has come across as a would-be guardian of the forum at all. Just aired a concern that is shared by others. His post above sets this out more eloquently than I could, so I won’t say any more about it.
And really, when you look into the 2012-2013 series thread, wouldn’t you agree that much of it has become a case of ‘the blind leading the blind’? Relative newbies to the methods guiding other newbies, telling them that all they need to know are one or two elements without any contextual background and getting it horribly wrong? Shouting about how this or that alone can make you $thousands, yet have only been using the techniques on demo for a few weeks?
The fact that the main ICT thread has been so derailed is perhaps the biggest irony of all.
