What kind of fraudulent activity is going on with the Brokers. I’m new to Forex and have been trading live for about 3 months with a small profit (15%) on funds.
99% of new trades when opened move off in the opposite direction of the opened position. Most eventually return to profit, or meander along the position line… How, How, How can you be that wrong in choosing market direction, total farce!
Want to find a support level, open a short… Want to find a resistance level, open a long… total Bull#@$t.
Even slippage… 90% positive in the Demo realm, 90% negative in the Live realm.
After reading here on BP it appears that it never happens to experienced traders which I find unbelievable.
Any other newbies suffering from the same psychological illusions.
Hi Trendswithbenefits and welcome to the forum. First of all it depends on what kind of broker (STP, Market Maker or mixed) you chose and what type of account. Honestly I think it was a bit too early for you to go live. If you are still new to Forex then I would suggest to keep practicing on demo and terminate the live account activity for a while. Check again the Babypips school here, read some books, watch videos, there are many free webinars and analysis in the web which you’ll find helpful and educational.
I am not sure what do you mean here, as there is no slippage in the demo environment because the orders are not actually transferred to the real market.
That’s exceptionally successful. I wouldn’t think one new trader in a hundred manages to make as much as 5% per month for three months, when starting off.
I’d say the evidence is exactly to the contrary.
It isn’t really “slippage”. It’s just the effect of the spread. The prices displayed on your charts will be the mid-price between the bid and the ask, unless you’ve deliberately set them up some other way, and that means that all your trades will start off with a slight negative because of the spread.
I know you’re not going to like it when I say this, but it’s effectively impossible for a retail broker to do what you’re suggesting they are. There are arbitrage traders that look for platforms that deviate from the rest of the market and will pounce on even a pip or two of difference.
The problem is that I would bet you’re trading on very small time frames and your trading size is too large for your account size.
You need better money management, better risk management, and you need to trade longer time frames so you can see what the market is actually doing while at the same time understanding that the market “breathes” a little, it moves in and out constantly.
But yes, even those of us that are experienced and profitable traders will open a position, have the market move against us and take out our stop loss only to move back the way it was before. It’s called being “whipsawed” and it happens to EVERYONE.
However with experienced traders it doesn’t happen very often. With me anymore it’s rare that it happens but I’ve been profitably trading for three years … profitably enough that it’s been my living for the last two.
Hi Mayzee, thanks for your response. All my trades are 0.01 or 0.05 microlot trades on a $2500 account, so I cannot go any safer than this. Average loss is $2.50 - $4.00 and TP is $8.00 - $11.00, I try to utilise 4:1 RR (15 SL with a 60TP) every trade but not always possible. I use Fib Retrace for support and resistance so it depends where the price is when I enter a position.
It’s not the trading that is the issue, it’s the way the price reverses after opening a position, like the platform / broker is trying the shake you out straight away and make you question direction after commencing nearly every trade, like being wrong on a craps table 99 out of 100 rolls, just mathematically isn’t possible.
Replies have mentioned Whipsawing which I understand, but I’m pointing out straight after a trade is placed in the market, not the continual up and down of price action. Even when trading in the same direction of a Whipsaw, the price will reverse instantly on execution of a position, Dodgy as.
I will open some accounts with other brokerages and see if they behave the same. But as I have read elsewhere in this forum the Broker will just point to the liquidity provider as soon as they cannot explain away unscrupulous behavior.
They will. It’s normal. It doesn’t signify what you think it signifies.
That’s normal. It’s because of the spread. The prices displayed on your charts will be the mid-price between the bid and the ask, unless you’ve deliberately set them up some other way, and that means that all your trades will start off with a slight negative, the second you open them.
Wait … first of all I can promise you that no broker is going to give a single crap about your dinky little 4 bucks. You aren’t even a blip on their radar. If you’re finding the market moving against you when you’re opening your positions probably you are picking poor open times. Further, just because you’re trading really small lots doesn’t mean you aren’t having your stop loss in too narrow of a space. You may want to consider going back to a demo account for a little while.
Also, why is TP only 8 to 11 bucks? Why aren’t you letting your winners run longer?
So, the poster that sarcastically replies to my thread (Mayzee) and attempts to tear me a “new one”, turns out to be either a fraudulent trader or has something to sell. Which is the new MO of InfantP;
The indicators and charts are horrific and I noticed again this week (and what made me decide to add to this post and I’ve heard this complained about multiple times on multiple sites), is that when my order is executed, my entry position instantly becomes support (for a short) or resistance (for a long), right to the exact pip, where no support or resistance can otherwise be found at that value. This is even more apparent because my platform places a line on the chart at the entry price. It’s fun to watch as, candle after candle rebounds off my entry for no explainable reason. It’s even more fun, nearly comical, to watch as price moves as planned the second I close the position. I’d imagine it wouldn’t be very fun if I was trading with a significant amount of real money. Yes, I’m using a “True ECN??” account and trading on 5m to 30m TF’s but price movement is just too diabolical to be random bad luck.
I’ve just started reading a book called Fooled by Randomness which covers a lot of the market manipulation, the more time I spend researching FX Trading the murkier it gets.
It’s either Broker or the LP attempting to shake people out, me opening positions at the wrong time, every time or this is absolute chart/quote manipulation?
@Trendswithbenefits, you mentioned you will open some accounts with other brokers but have you already checked the prices on your charts against other sources to confirm whether they are off?
Hi Forex.com. Thanks for your continued interest, I have opened accounts with 2 new Brokerages (have 3 in total) and find that they all vary by a few pips. When I contacted one particular PRO Broker, the excuse was “Different LP’s, hence the difference in the chart values at a set time”. Could see that coming a mile away. So, when you think about it, there really is no set value for say the EURUSD at any given time across all continents. Just a price that is roundabout set by each Liquidity Provider. As I said FX gets Murkier and Murkier.
The fact that not one newbie trader on BP has either responded with similar experiences is alarming. I have since questioned this anomaly with other traders and find it is not unusual and is blamed on the money grabbing algorithms rife in the markets. My issue is the accuracy of the price action, as if they know to the pip where your positions are.
I have changed my strategy to mainly 2 up 2 down sell, 2 down 2 up buy price action on the 1 hour TF with a clean chart. Seems better.
I’ve been reading about brokers rigging prices ever since I’ve been trading. I suspect its far more likely that the crowd enters at the most predictable time and place and make themselves victims to more aggressive traders taking the other side. They also see where the crowd is likely to get out through a stop.
Might be more productive to work out what the crowd does and do the opposite.
Including in this would be don’t day-trade at all.
The problem with trading the D1 TF is if your get market direction wrong, it can amount to a huge amount of pips in the wrong direction and a waste of a hell of a lot of time. I’m trying to trade the happy medium between scalping (1-4h) and multi day trading. The longer you have positions open the more chance of volatility from news, world events or “monkey business” from the FX industry will bite you.
FXCM got caught with a finger in their Liquidity Provider, I’m sure there is others.
Sure, the market can go against you when you select the direction using D1 TF. But a strong trend on the D1 chart is certainly more meaningful than something from just the last few hours using M5 or M15 candles.
The distance to your stop is of course going to be much greater than on a day-trade, but losses are not controlled by restricting the number of pips to a stop, they are controlled by managing position size and placing your stop in a meaningful position according to TA.
Limiting a trade to a duration of 8 hours say is no way to squeeze the best profit from the market.Especially when we all know there is usually little strong price movement during the Asian session, which is also why nobody makes money day-trading it.
Plus, some of these news events can actually be very positive. Don’t forget there are two currencies in every pair. What’s bad for one could be really good for the other.
A great discussion you have going, but first to address your comment:
FXCM would not have suffered more than $200 million dollars in losses during the SNB flash crash had we been taking the other side of client trades – unlike many dealing desk firms in the industry. On NDD forex execution, every order is offset one-for-one with a liquidity provider. The trader has a position with FXCM and FXCM has an offsetting position with the liquidity provider. When the trader went into a debit balance, that meant FXCM also had a debit balance with the liquidity provider that had to be covered.
FX trading is decentralized so prices can vary from broker to broker, but typically not by that much. As Mayzee mentioned, a broker with a deviation from where the majority of liquidity providers are quoting would leave them open to arbitrage. In fact there’s a term for this ‘picking’ which some brokers may close your account over if they find you have been trying to arbitrage latency in their pricing. I’ve also found traders are not hesitant to post screenshots comparing broker pricing
Pricing from broker will typically align closely since many brokers may be using the same liquidity providers (LPs). However, the pricing and liquidity an LP is offering to one broker can differ from that offered to another broker. A lot of this is based on relationships. The more volume you bring to the table for an LP, the better leverage you have for negotiating better spreads and liquidity for traders. You can also think of spreads being inverse to liquidity. If a broker tells an LP it wants a 1 pip spread on EUR/USD then the amount of liquidity offered at a 1 pip spread may be less than the amount of liquidity offered at a 2 pip spread. Offering liquidity at a 1 pip spread is a greater risk than offering liquidity at a 2 pip spread. The optimal goal is to have the best of both since you don’t want a tight spreads only to find out you suffer from greater slippage. So you can see how a broker’s pricing could differ whether they value tighter spreads or greater liquidity.
Speaking for FXCM’s NDD forex execution, each liquidity provider streams through a direct feed of executable buy and sell prices to FXCM. Our NDD Price Engine selects the best buy price and the best sell price, which result in the best available spread. The best available spread is then streamed to the platform. We also offer a Dealing Desk (DD) account option, but traders on DD execution receive a price feed based on the same transparent competitive pricing that our NDD accounts receive.
Regarding slippage, FXCM released updated slippage statistics from January 1, 2017 through May 31, 2017 telling you how many orders experienced negative slippage, no slippage, and positive slippage:
*Certain non‐direct clients are excluded from the data. Limit and limit entry orders only receive negative slippage in error; clients are eligible to receive trade adjustments in the event that these errors occur. Price Improvements are subject to available liquidity.
The type of order used can also impact slippage. The full slippage statistics breaks slippage down by order type which you will find interesting: FXCM_slippage_report_ltd_2017_Jan_May.pdf (131.7 KB)
In my own trading, I can relate to what you are talking about. I look at a chart and think wow the market is going up, time to buy. But by the time market direction becomes obvious and I decide to jump in is often times when the market movement may already be over. It doesn’t happen only in forex trading. Bitcoin and Ethereum also come to mind. Prices climb to crazy levels and everyone starts talking about it which attracts long positions, and the next thing you know prices have dropped 20%.
Such is trading. It involves continuous learning, especially the psychological side of it. Add leverage to the mix and it can become a roller coaster. I hope you find success!
Jason
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The slippage statistics do not in away way attempt to represent that FXCM maintains a particular capacity or performance level. The figures in this statistics are provided for information purposes only, and are not intended for trading purposes or advice. FXCM is not liable for any information errors, incompleteness, or delays, or for any actions taken in reliance on information contained herein. Past results are not indicative of future performance.
Still not one definitive answer on price moving the opposite direction as soon as a position is opened every single trade. Must be an optical illusion, a figment of my imagination. Apparently spreads and whipsaws are the only possibilities which have nothing to do with what I have asked. Although we have learned the farce that is liquidity provider price movement.
-“FX trading is decentralized so prices can vary from broker to broker, but typically not by that much. As Mayzee mentioned, a broker with a deviation from where the majority of liquidity providers are quoting would leave them open to arbitrage. In fact there’s a term for this ‘picking’ which some brokers may close your account over if they find you have been trying to arbitrage latency in their pricing. I’ve also found traders are not hesitant to post screenshots comparing broker pricing”-
Hence the reason arbitrage latency traders are shut down, profits confiscated and thrown out of the market as quickly as possible as the trader is playing the Liquidity Provider at his own game.
,
-“Pricing from broker will typically align closely since many brokers may be using the same liquidity providers (LPs). However, the pricing and liquidity an LP is offering to one broker can differ from that offered to another broker”-
So as I stated we can safely say that all FX prices are only Liquidity Providers estimates at any given time. Which opens up the opportunity to spike the price (albeit slight) in their favour at any given time, fantastic.
I was warned it’s a game, so I’m out, small profit, Good Luck to all.
I would say that you are bit paranoid about this. As you have been explained, it’s not in the brokers intrest to have large deviations in pricing, and if you are still worried about this, just open demo accounts with other brokers and compare the pricing.
And no one can give you any specific answer to why ALL your trades behave like they do. Seams that the only explanation you are willing to accept is some kind of conspiracy.
But yes, mayby it is best for you to stop trading. In this state of mind, I think trading would most likely be really challenging.
