I rolled over 31 minilots. Each one paid $154 interest for a total interest payment today for just those 31 GJ open mimilots is $47.74.
This is triple interest.
Thanks for the rollover payout explanationsā¦I understand rollover, I just wasnāt sure what this triple Wednesday was about.
I have another question. I do not pay a lot of attention to margin since I never have traded my account with these large draw downs. Now I want to fully understand how to limit my margin usage according to Elijahās specs.
I use MT4 and it shows Balance, Equity, Margin, Free Margin and Margin level in a high percentage. Elijah says to limit margin to 4% or so. How do I determine this with this MT4 set up?
Right now my balance is $67,000 or so, Margin is $10,200 and Free Margin is around $55,000 (I have a draw down of about $12,000). My Margin level is about 525%. What is my current margin usage according to Elijahās numbers?
Thanks.
to open your mind to ideas that you always thought were unable to produce consistant profits. What is funny is that most people who continually lose money continue to trade the SAME way and continue to lose money.
When I lose money it is a lot and it is not very often. It does happen and has happened and may happen again. And each time it was me that made the wrong choice(es). And it may happen again but of course that is not in the current plan.
Wednesday is triple interest because the settlement date for wednesday is friday so you get interest for the 2 additional days over the weekend.
You margin level should be expressed as 2 numbers or 3 if it is 100% or 1 if it is 9% or less.
If your available or free margin %age is 80% then you are at 20% margin useage
Sounds like your margin useage is pretty low. Of course this also depends on your leverage. I am using 400:1 as it pays the same interest as 200:1 leverage. If I go 100:1 leverage I can earn more interest, but I make more money on pips.
I am going to fight in the 204ās and scalp every 9 and 0.
I am even set for a run down to 203.50. But like I said I expect 204 to hold
and would think we could test 208 by WE.
Another 100 pip drop to 203.30ishā¦Iām glad Iām only demoing this :eek: ā¦my available margin is in the negative and Iāve only got a couple hundred of equity leftā¦I canāt open anymore buys or scalp and hope I donāt get a margin call, but then again itāll just be a learning experience as to how that part works 
Welp, I am not willing to risk any more margin on this battle so its time for me to wait it out and gain the interest. What a crazy drop there was today. Lets see how long this takes to get back up to the loss leader.
This has been interesting. I am pretty much bottomed out here, running a $20,000 draw down on a $67,000 accountā¦going down much further and buying along the way seems counter productive.
I donāt think I have been around long enough to feel that there isnāt a chance this thing will break through 203.30 support and head down to 198.00. But I have faith!!
I have charted an uptrend channel on the daily chart that looks very strong. A bounce from 203.30 will send the GJ up to 210 and beyond.
I am looking forward to this evening when the GJ starts its climb!!
Todd
What were you saying about heading down to 198.00? Well I got called at 202.30 and it doesnāt seem to want to stop yet 
I think this system is a little more dangerous than Iām ready for ā¦one has to have much more to work with capital wise ā¦Iām out for now but hope it works out for the rest of ya 
Wellā¦I think I agree with you Sweet Pipā¦if I get out of this alive I think I am to going to leave it to better men than I.
I am still functioning, but barely. It is like this fall was made to kill.
I guess its only money.
Todd
I didnt figure it was going down to 202.50ish.
Had you beed smart you would have had orders all the way down there
which would have hit their TPās overnight for last night I did OK,
but MISSED ALL the movement from 203.50 and down.
D1301405~P/L~E08107087~GBP/JPY~1.00~B~05/07/2008 22:49~203.49~05/08/2008 00:56~203.72~$22.03
D1301405~P/L~D08558479~GBP/JPY~1.00~B~05/07/2008 22:31~203.59~05/08/2008 00:56~203.68~$8.62
D1301405~P/L~E08196460~GBP/JPY~1.00~B~05/08/2008 02:38~203.49~05/08/2008 06:21~203.76~$25.93
D1301405~P/L~E08196386~GBP/JPY~1.00~B~05/08/2008 02:38~203.59~05/08/2008 06:21~203.78~$18.25
D1301405~P/L~D08568050~GBP/JPY~1.00~B~05/07/2008 22:30~203.79~05/08/2008 06:22~203.85~$5.76
D1301405~P/L~D08568042~GBP/JPY~1.00~B~05/07/2008 22:28~203.99~05/08/2008 07:24~204.27~$26.81
D1301405~P/L~D08571941~GBP/JPY~1.00~B~05/07/2008 22:15~204.29~05/08/2008 07:24~204.37~$7.66
CUrrently I am down unrealized 6822 pips but my account is up overall about 6100, so for the month unrealized is 722 above banked pips.
But had I bought down to 202.50 I would have built a lot more equity.
SInce 4am we are up now about 200 pips. DO you see how it would have been smart to enter your orders all the way down into 202.50,
because when you wake up you could have made HUNDREDS of pips.
That 2am-4am run down is so classic with GJ.
You could have gotten rich on one trade overnight. HAd you loaded up with some fat orders at 202.50 and sold them for 204.30 now, for 180 pips.
I am working on some LT GJ strategies which doāt require so much attention.
It will basically be getting many orders at one price down low and holding them for weeks or months (LT swing trade0. INstead of banking the pips,
I would hold it and collect interest day in and day out for weeks or months.
There are still some people out there holding a lot of silver that they bought at $8. Even if they make $10 an ounce they doubled thier money but it took literally years.
I donbāt know if some news ran it down overnight. But I pretty much count on GJ getting run down almost every night.
She easily retraced almost 200 pips in 3 hours or so. If you were playing $200 a pip and got in at 202.50 and sold at the peak about 204.50 you would be up 40K this morning.
I expect to retrace to 203.50 before moving up slow and steady through the rest of the day.
At this point it should be clear to everyone that news majorly affects the GJ, thru the GBP, the JPY and the USD, the news will always make her move usually down it seems lately. But we will always RETRACE. If I was up at 4m this morning I would have been maxing out my margin buying at 202.50
as most any rookie could have looked at the 15M at the 345AM EDT 15M bar,
SAW the doji and got in fat. Even if you waited 50 pips and got in long at 203 and sold out early at 204.
Understand the whole reason I am here: to enlighten you,
to expand your conciousness, to reveal the concealed, and to drawn down huge amounts of light from Zeir Anpin.
I guess if any of you are making money, that is a side benefit.
Last night is where the boys are separated from the men. I errored by getting TMTH around 205.50 causing me to cancel many lower longs to save margin. I dont know what margin useage %age I maxxed out at when price was at 202.50, but this mroning I am still pushing 20% USED.
While this still may not seem alot, it is 1/5 of my whole account which is WAY further than I ever like to get.
SItting at 20 or 25% makes me uneasy. IMagine sitting at 50 or 60 or 80 or 95. I have been there. I have been to over 100% and came back somehow without getting sold out. You want to talk about stressful and emotional torture.
Be still and patient and she will come around. I assure you.
Well My demo account got wiped out. I had TMTH and not enough margin. Ideally Iād want more margin than $50k when trading 100k lots and FXCM wonāt let me trade mini lots.
Iāve looked at the math. Say you get really unlucky and the GJ runs down 12000 pips (250 to 130) which is worse case scenario. at $9.55 per pip you would need $114,600 in order to cover your position. Now at $25 a day of interest, youād still get about $9125 a year which makes a pretty decent return of 7.96% per year, especially for a losing trade.
This isnāt bad and considering itās a worst case scenario I donāt see what can go wrong as long as you have smart margin management. However you would have to be ready to have your $ tied up for a long time should it run down that low as it would take years to climb back up. Also youāre exposed to changing interest rates but I donāt see how it would get negative.
Elijah, Iāve been following your system, itās really interesting but I find so far that it takes too much of my time and I left for a day with open trades to find them called when I came back. (Had too many with little margin, my fault)
Just scalped one at 202.59.
Now would be the time to load up on some longs for the 200 pip move back up. I am hanging in there and was over 50% margin used. At that point you almost want to walk away and avoid all the drama.
You know it is coming back up.
Again I got TMTH.
I am all spent out with buying longs. ONly one order in long at 203.59 waiting to be filled. I moved this entry up from 202.49 since I just sold a 202.59.
My last 2 longs on the bottom I have left open without a TP
I bought them at:
202.89
203.19
Above is 41 more longs! All the way up to 209.63.
So thats 43 longs in all. I may as well work on the bomb squad
than to sit in this position I am in now.
But when it comes up can you even begin to imagine the pips?
See how far I have them spaced apart for the ride down. I am way above sane margin management guidelines. I think I will be able to pull this off.
I see no reason why GJ could possibly sink more. But at some point real quick here, it is going to turn around and go north with a fury like it did earlier today when it retraced 200 pips over a few hours.
This beast is not for the faint of heart.
And this is why I advocated using micro lots and why I continue to OVER emphasize LOW margin useage.
I really admire your faith Elijah. I too believe it is coming back. But what I have experienced is that I cannot take advantage of loading up longs when it dips so close to a margin call. I think if I was working with $10k and trading tiny lots (maybe even micro) I could have fun with it and ādareā it to call me out. I donāt think it would kill me to lose $10k easily. Although I wonāt die if I lose my $50k it will make me sad. So I do exercise a bit of risk aversion and stopped placing orders when my draw down topped $30,000 (in a $67,000 account)ā¦do you think I am being too conservative?
With hindsight certainly I would have done well seeing the bottom at 202.20 or so. I am still not certain this is the end. What makes us so sure it wonāt consolidate here for a day or so and continue its drive down next week? To 198 and beyond? I think maybe your strategy insists on such small lot trades with such small returns that you would end up enduring such a run down but making a very small amount in return. That is the only way I see trading thisā¦to have very very very small lots with a huge balance.
Wellā¦I love the strategy (if you can believe I would say that!) I like its āattitudeāā¦positiveā¦confidentā¦and I like the trollā¦but I am too weak I think to do this with my real account. I will continue though with the demo. Maybe when I have a $500,000 balance I could trade mini lots and would know that I would never go so low that my account would get called or that I would have to tie up my cash. But then my return would not be worth the effort. No pain, no gain.
Todd
Hey Elijahā¦
I am curious to know what you would do if you were in my situation. The GJ seems to want to continue to go down. It is now at 202.50 and still falling. I am now over $30,000 draw down on a $68,000 account.
I have one buy trade in at 203. The next one I have is at 204 something. Then they are spaced out above thatālots of them. I havenāt had a close TP in quite some time. And I wonāt be bringing in any profit for quite some time as well.
Would you start closing some of these positions to make room for more trades? Or just close them to keep a margin call a bit further away? I figure Iāll be called at somewhere around 200 or 199. Iām not sure if I can just watch it all go down the drain.
Just interested to know what you would do in a situation like this. I am fine waiting it outā¦but wonder if I will not gain the benefits of a wait if I am not trading along the way and buying down as it gets lower. I would like to think it will start a rebound, but it just isnāt doing that and has dropped 70 pips since this morning.
In defense of the system, I have made some errors I know. And of course I am 400 or so pips away from a meltdown so maybe I am overreactingā¦please tell me if I am.
I think I traded bigger lot sizes than I should haveā¦you say you are working with a $10,000 account trading 1 mini lot trades. I was working with a $50,000 account and trading 2 or 3, sometimes 4, mini lot trades. Was this wrong? I am also working with a 100:1 leverage account.
Let me know your thoughts, I would appreciate it.
Todd 
It looks like we are going to be heading up now!
Been a tough fight down low.
Now the reward comes to the faithful.
Well if it is a demo account (it better be). You are only at less than 50% margin, you have to play it out to learn. It is not going to keep going down.
I am only playing with one or two buying at 202.59 and 202.49. Then I am getting up pips and closing it before it hits the TP and renetering it.
You will bring a profit everynight! I got about 43X.52 cents per night x 7 days a week 3 of these days are paid on wednesday rollovers, every day pays interest even holidays.
If your draw down is 100% of your account balance than you are sold out by your broker. IF your drawndown is anything less than 100% you are still in.
If it hits 100% you are out.
Your goal is to stay in. You have room to play with one or two lots or 4 or 5 maybe. You have to learn the balance by doing.
I have 41 minilots at 43.09% margin USED so I ONLY have 57% margin left.
I am in deep. Very deep is over 50%. Drownding is in the 90ās and dead is at 100. As long as you dont hit 100 for any sustained time you will live through it. YOu have to now scalp in range.
YOu have done well if you are under 50% margin useage on this mad run down. scalp in range. LIek I said I am buying one at 202.49 and one at 202.59 I may buy one in the high 202ās if I see a bottom and can scalp 6 or more pips.
100:1 leverage actually means you are required to put up 4 TIMES MORE margin than at 400:1 which is what I am at. SO you may not have as much room as I said above.
You have to figure out how to figure margin useage.
I am up overall around 6200 pips and am down unrealized 11000 pips
and I am not giving up. Many times I have been through cycles like this where she moves back up. She has to move back up.
At that 100:1 leverage you should only be playing one minilot as 10K at 400:1 is the same as 40K at 100:1 trading power wise.
I am working on something, that will add to this system, which will involve hedgeing and going short and being short and long over the same price ranges,
so either way, if it goes up or down you are making pips,
I have had fleeting glimpses of its development and perfection.
It will sort of be like straddleing a fence, whatever side the snake is on you LIFT your LEG!
I sclaped them a few times from these levels and rebought again at the same price several times, but not making much headway. MY next order up is at 203.19. I am down to 39% margin used so that feels better and it looks like we are holding and going up from 203.
I almost survived a run down from 207 to 192.60, the borker really sold me out and sealed the deal by charing my credit card but then withholding putting the money they charged in my account because I exceeded the 5K monthly deposit limit allowed via credit card. SO I learned a big lesson there.
And I would have made a killing on the way back up from 192.60.
It has to be tiny lots.
It has to be safe and able to endure to the end. You can hold GBP against JPY forever and multiply your money several times a year.
Literally it is 30% of the amount of margin you have tied up in the trade. But dfoesnāt count the money you are drawndown, which isnt paying interest, the cash is not the fact that the cash is worth less, it is only worth less if you sell it, if you hold it, it will pay high dividends forever. Again as a rule no one should be trading a real account with money they cannot afford to lose.
Of course that is not the goal. WIth the lots I have I will gain about $655 a month in interest, every month pretty much forever. THe GJ difference may change slightly but will always be close to what it is now as long as we live prolly. I am down 11000 pips unrealized. If I hold what I have for 16-17 months I WILL HAVE EARNED 11000K USD in interest. That is a long time.
But over 16 months it is more likely to come up. ANd if it doesnāt and I am scalping in range, It could draw me in deeper and require me to invest more money.
But money in forex to me is like money in the bank.
I never met or had a dealer that didnt give me my money back.
And the bank aint paying crap for interest.
p2p pays 80% a month in 60 day terms, but that to me is riskier than forex.
And hence it pays more interest. Forex is pure gambling.
And if you are smart and have the edge you can consistantly make profits way in excess of your losses. YOu have to treat it like a business.
In business you invest in the building (drawdown). I am ok with the drawndown and for the interest it pays with the upside potential and ability to scalp in range 24/7 will eventually give me the winning advantage.
There is no way that if I keep my position open that eventualyl I wont scalp, pip, or interest you to the point wherer I am up a boatload of cash.
Can you even imagine a run back up to 208 now?
Ever see the GJ move 700 pips in a day? It is not unusual.
PErhaps wioth all the knowledge you may need to trade this system the best,
that you may be beter off swing trading, and your drawndown will be less
and maybe profits will be more if you dont close them out early.
Iām down to 40 lots and 33% margin useage.
this is where you try not to take too many pips less than your TP
or you rode the wild ride for naught.
as I thought 203.50 would hold.
I have longs at 203.34 49 59 64 89 and 99.
Iād like to make a decent profit on them.
Often times I have the flaw of inpatience which causes me to close them
manually before they hit the TP point previously set, especially if I am in deep on my margin. WHich at 33% that is sure way higher than the 1-3%
that is recommended.