Going offshore to escape the CFTC

Broker Discussion Forex Brokers
3421

It seems like Tallinex is trying hard to find a bank with intermediaries that have not been ruined by the US. Hopefully they are able to find a solution soon. I am confident they will :45:

3422

Hey, Willie (I think you’re actually David L******d)

Very sorry to see you’ve stooped to scare-mongering and pointless threats… surely, after working with us for “well over 1 year” where “everything has been running great”, the adult approach would have been:

  1. waiting until after meeting with your bank, so you had some helpful facts regarding the matter, and
  2. discussing the issue with us to see how we could help resolve things…

…before posting something potentially damaging in a public forum.

Please remember that we’re focussed on getting funds out to clients, which seems to work fine in most cases, but we can’t react to new instances of banking stupidity if we aren’t aware of them!

“the banking change by Tallinex now was either sending through an intermediary bank in Russia or changed banks to a bank in Russia”

Well… if you’d taken 30 seconds to look at our banking page then you would have seen that our bank is NOT in Russia (saving you from typing half a sentence), and if funds were routed via a Russian correspondent bank then that will be due to issues at YOUR bank, not ours.

3423

Sorry, Nitzant, but you wouldn’t know what “no mans land” was if you were dropped in the middle of it!

I’m sorry to hear that you lost money, but your comment only highlights the fact that you didn’t perform adequate due diligence before putting your money with them… just like the people who had money with Bernie Madoff, PFG Best, MF Global and Refco, which all operated from the ultimate “no mans land” … the USA!

As for your “I hope that you get you money out of these buggers” comment, Willie clearly states that the money has been sent and the issue is with HIS bank, so perhaps you should be making “Hey, Tallinex - sorry to hear that your clients use incompetent banks!” comments instead :slight_smile:

3424

Thanks for the support, Tom… yes - the US is still a huge issue, but Canada has become equally stupid recently … it’s getting like the movie “Dumb & Dumber”!

No matter, we will prevail, and very few people seem to have issues with withdrawals… it’s just unfortunate that some (mostly smaller) banks are staffed by morons who can’t read a wire instruction and see that the funds originated from an EU bank.

3425

thanks for your sympath

Investor Europe did not have one bad report about them and I check everywhere

well I should have checked with regulators before giving them my money that is in hindsight

live and learn

3426

I just have to chime in here. First of all, there is 5 years of research on this thread and I see Investor Europe listed nowhere. I am a US resident and this whole situation is the fault of the CFTC. Hell, we don’t even have an ECN we can trade with. They have driven all but 4 brokers out or into merging with the crooks who have ripped clients off for years. The regulation means nothing, your funds are no more protected in the US than with an 'unregulated" broker. I trade with Trader’s Way, but I also know Tallinex is an excellent broker. They are both more trustworthy than any broker in the US. No freezing platforms, no random price spikes not seen elsewhere, etc, etc. How many times CFTC going to fine these brokers? Here’s the deal…you only need 10% of the funds to execute the same trade with these brokers, so, common sense says, if my money isn’t protected in either place, I think I’ll put up 10% instead of 100%. Leave the rest in FDIC insured bank account. My risk is based on my total forex funds, of which 90% is in my bank. So while it may appear I use high leverage with the funds I have at the broker, I’m still risking the same % , just not risking my funds by letting a US broker hold them. Ironically, I also receive my withdrawals, which I do EVERY SINGLE WEEK, faster than I used to with US brokers.

In short, Tallinex is correct, it is the ridiculousness of our regulators causing all of the issues. Everyone else in the world, including those with all of the “regulated” brokers in Europe, UK, Australia, etc. have high leverage, hedging allowed, no FIFO and their funds ARE PROTECTED. If our government were really looking out for us, they would allow us, instead of prohibit us, to trade with these brokers.

3427

well said Frank

perhaps I was Naive to open an account with the likes of Investors Europe the only way to fight these criminal is to shout loud so and tell the world what they are doing so that they no other innocent client get hurt and hopefully then they will get punished.

In my view Investors Europe will not be in business in 6 months from now and I will do every thing in my power to make sure that not other innocent traders get hurt by them - they are nasty and they deserve to be punished and I believe they will be punished.

I told the story on every forum I know - any recommendation of most popular forum to tell the story about them ?

3428

Yes, I understand you wishing to warn others of that particular broker, I would too. With that being said, I want you and others to also know there are at least 3 very reputable “unregulated” brokers, whom I would trade with even if there were no ridiculous restrictions in the US. Fact is, I simply trust them more than any of the crooks the US calls brokers.

3429

You’re on that forum right now, nitzant.

This thread has been viewed more than 632,000 times.

Furthermore, this thread is read by posters on other forums, and is often quoted directly on those forums — sometimes with attribution, and sometimes without attribution.

Here is an example:

GEM - Global Extra Money | Passive Income Ideas | FX & Sports Betting

this blog, dated February 2015, copied our Offshore Broker List (as of that date) with attribution, and also copied several paragraphs from the rant on page 5 of this thread, without attribution

Excerpt - copied from this thread on Babypips, with attribution (copied portion in blue):

The List Of Outside US Brokers Accepting US Residents
Having explained, fortunately, US strict regulations do not completely stop international brokers from accepting US citizens. There are certain offshore international Forex brokers that accept US citizens.
This data source is Babypip.com forum and I simplified the original information.
Notes
The list does include not only Regulated Brokers but also Non-Regulated Brokers which you may want to put low priority or make full due diligence except the brokers in Finland where Fx trading itself is not regulated.

Europe
AssetsFX (Finland) — ECN/STP broker, Finland does not regulate FX trading / Website
Renesource Capital (Latvia)— ECN/STP broker, regulated by Latvia Financial and Capital Markets Commission (FCMC) / Website

Mediterranean / Middle East / Africa
Sensus Capital Markets (Malta) — regulated by Malta Financial Services Authority (MFSA) / Website
FXGlory (United Arab Emirates) — not regulated / Website
ProfiForex (Seychelles) — regulated by Seychelles International Business Authority (SIBA) / Website
Real Trade (Seychelles) — not regulated / Website

Pacific / Asia
Forex Broker Inc (The Marshall Islands) — ECN broker, does not seem to be regulated / Website

Central America / Caribbean
Forex-metal (Panama) — not regulated / Website
FX Choice (Belize) — not regulated / Website
Real Forex (Belize) — ECN broker, not regulated / Website
IKOFX (British Virgin Islands) — not regulated / Website
Trader’s Way (Dominica) — not regulated / Website
PaxForex (St. Vincent and the Grenadines) — not regulated / Website
SmartTradeFX (St. Vincent and the Grenadines) — not regulated / Website
Tallinex (St. Vincent and the Grenadines) — ECN / STP broker, not regulated / Website

Regulation Inquiry
I picked 2 brokers of AssetsFX (Finland) & Tallinex (St. Vincent and the Grenadines) as examples and sent an inquiry about Regulation, then the answers I received are;
AssetsFX

  • Forex is not regulated in Finland as it is not considered to be an investment or financial investment. However, the client is protected by Finland’s general legislation including e.g. Commercial Code and Consumer Protection Law. Also as a company we are subject to Companies Act, Tax Law and Accounting Act. These Finnish laws are also regarded stricter than in several other European Union countries in general.
    Tallinex
  • Tallinex Limited is licensed to operate as an IBC under St Vincent and the Grenadines law. Spot Forex exchange transactions are not considered financial instruments by the St Vincent and the Grenadines Financial Services Authority (FSA) regardless of their purpose i.e. commercial or otherwise. This determination means that St Vincent and the Grenadines does not categorise spot Forex as a securities product and, therefore, the retail spot Forex business carried out by Tallinex Limited does not fall under securities regulation in St VIncent and Grenadines, and requires no additional licensing.
    Just For Your Information.

This list is based on the babypips.com info as of the beginning of Feb '15 and surely the list would be changeable, and most importantly, it’s essential to make minimum Due Diligence before you open an account in any of the above brokers - be watchful about Central America / Caribbean Region where you see basically no regulated broker.

Excerpt - copied (and slightly edited) from this thread, without attribution (copied portion in blue):

Rationale Why Some Offshore Brokers Can Still Accept US Citizens
Despite the regulation, for a US citizen, there are chances you can open an account with international brokers not registered by US regulatory bodies - NFA and CFTC. However, this is done under certain different conditions. Such offshore brokers are allowed to accept US clients only under their US based affiliate brokerage firms. The CFTC has U.S. forex brokers by the throat: by threatening their ability to do business in the U.S., the CFTC can interfere with the rights of those brokers to do business outside the U.S. and the CFTC has his tentacles deep inside many foreign governments, through a series of nasty, little agreements known as Memoranda of Understanding. These agreements have effectively extended U.S. regulation to cover U.S. residents doing business in countries which have signed the agreements.

There still are countries where these agreements do not exist. And there are a few offshore brokers, in Memorandum countries, who have the courage to defy the over-reaching U.S. regulatory authorities, and welcome U.S. residents as clients, and to consider client relationships with them. And under current law, the CFTC has no authority over individual traders who trade through foreign brokers that are beyond the reach of U.S regulation. The U.S. government claims the authority, through the IRS, to require U.S. residents to report foreign accounts which people hold, bank accounts, brokerage accounts, etc, which has been automatically reported under FATCA (Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act) started in July '14. But, they cannot yet prevent US citizens from having those accounts. From another perspective, the non-US Forex brokers who are affected by the Dodd-Frank act are those that are regulated in their own countries. Means, the brokers in the countries where Forex itself is not regulated such as Finland can accept US citizens without being bothered by Dodd-Frank act (remember the Act affects the brokerage but not you as an individual, as long as you report what is required to IRS you are not subject to be punished).

I can assure you, when you post factual information about offshore brokers in this thread, thousands of traders (and other interested parties) on websites around the world read what you have posted.

.

3430

@TALLINEX
Now that you’ve chosen to insult me then you won’t mind if I do the same.You clearly can’t read and understand English. It is a new mandate by Canadian banks since the newest terrorist acts abroad. I am not scare-mongering nor is it pointless threats…it’s sharing the facts. I also was probably trading long before you were out of diapers and certainly don’t need you as a task master telling me how to behave and what to do or how I should act. I do know where you are and maybe you suffered so long having a country tell you what to do that you think you can do it here also. I did research and know where you are and the tension the two countries have.

I was sharing facts that the “PUBLIC” does need to know if they trade. Just a simple sharing of an experience with “I’ll get back to you” once I know more certainly hit a major nerve for you to discredit it and flame the complete post. Maybe you know more than you’re sharing or is it just worrying about your pocket and the bottom line of your company.

Needless to say a representative of Tallinex I thought would be more diplomatic and professional than trashing my post especially with traders all over the world reading the exchanges. Just remember, brokers already have a tainted image and good ones are few and far between!

3431

[B]nitzant,[/B] I’m sorry to hear about the loss you suffered, trading with [B]Investors Europe.[/B]

But, I have to take exception to some of what has been said (above) alleging a lack of information about [B]Investors Europe[/B] in this thread.

• Beginning in July 2011, and continuing for several weeks, [B]Investors Europe[/B] was recommended, discussed, vetted, and ultimately added to our List of Offshore Brokers here in this thread.

[U]Here is some reading material from that time period[/U] —

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post266277.html#post266277

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post267408.html#post267408

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post267432.html#post267432

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post267852.html#post267852

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post268015.html#post268015

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post268166.html#post268166

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post268545.html#post268545

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post268584.html#post268584

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post268664.html#post268664

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post269189.html#post269189

• [U]Here is a portion of the Offshore Broker List, as it appeared from July 2011 until July 2013[/U] —

• In July 2013, we started to see problems with [B]Investors Europe.[/B]

[U]Here is more reading material, covering the time period beginning in July 2013[/U] —

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post513033.html#post513033

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post513286.html#post513286

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post513931.html#post513931

http://forums.babypips.com/forex-brokers/36221-going-offshore-escape-cftc-post514311.html#post514311

• Finally, the consensus on this thread was to remove [B]Investors Europe[/B] from our List, which I did.

I think that anyone who was actually following this thread would have been alerted more than 2 years ago to potential problems with [B]Investors Europe[/B].

So, I reject the contention that [B]Investors Europe[/B] wasn’t listed anywhere “in 5 years of research on this thread”.

.

3432

Willie,

You posted a long complaint, a portion of which is quoted above, a few minutes after midnight on Monday, November 16. You referred to a meeting with your bank manager scheduled for 11 am that same day, and you said that you would report the results of that meeting.

Then sometime after 9 pm that day, instead of reporting the outcome of your meeting at the bank, you engaged in a verbal pissing contest with Paul, the Tallinex representative.

I can’t tell whether you have unresolved anger issues, or just what your problem might be.

But, it might go a long way toward clearing the air if you would give us [B]your bank’s explanation[/B] for the delay in your wire transfer, and [B]their plan[/B] to resolve the problem.

.

3433

Hi Clint,

My apologies. I should have stated Investors Europe was not on your recommended or trusted brokers list. I was actually trying to make the point, that had he come here first, he would have never been with Investors Europe. I trade exclusively offshore and it is through this thread I choose my broker.

3434

  1. there is not even one partial sentence in my reply that could be construed as an insult.

  2. “It is a new mandate by Canadian banks since the newest terrorist acts abroad.”

Neither Russia, nor Russian banks are linked with any issue related to terrorism (save that Russia has suffered attacks on its soil), so the explanation you gave for your bank freezing the transfer and calling you in for interview is totally unrelated (unless you’re saying that funds arriving from ANY other country are under mandate… in which case, your comments regarding the Russian bank are even less relevant).

  1. “I do know where you are and maybe you suffered so long having a country tell you what to do”

Based on the above comment, it will surely surprise you to learn that St Vincent has a very similar history to Canada - controlled by the French, later controlled by the British, then gained independence but remains a commonwealth country, so we haven’t been told what to do for quite some time. Your “tension the two countries have” statement therefore makes no sense.

  1. “I was sharing facts that the ‘PUBLIC’ does need to know if they trade.”

I assume by that you mean “Canada has become a paranoid country and imposed repressive and intrusive banking legislation that has resulted in me being told to appear for a ‘guilty until proven innocent’ interview at my bank (rather like a naughty schoolboy being called to the principal’s office) for the heinous crime of receiving funds from outside of the country.”

  1. “Just remember, brokers already have a tainted image”

Indeed - in good measure, due to the “post first, think later” attitude of many forum users.

The bottom line is really that all fault appears to lie with Canadian law and Canadian banking institutions, and has nothing whatsoever to do with Tallinex or its bank… those are actually “facts the ‘public’ does need to know”, and which validate my original point that the adult approach would have been to gather all of the facts, and then post if/when there was really something useful to report.

3435

HA! now THAT is funny!

3436

Willie, am also curious to know what the bank said about the money freeze. Wish you luck.

3437

Anyone have any recent experience with the broker, fxglory? The last mention of them was a while ago in this thread. 3000:1 leverage, sounds too good to be true but I’m thinking of putting $1 in and trying them out.

3438

Hi Clint

thanks for the support.

I read6 of the links that you attached in your post

none of them would have alerted a red flag with regards to Investors Europe

In fact some of them are quite positive.

The way I have been doing my research about brokers is as follows:

  1. I check them on a number of leading forums - not reading every post but a 5-10 posts on each getting a general impression
  2. I googled “Broker Name Scam”, looking for bad stories about them - there were none about Investors Europe
  3. Checked their rating on rating on a number of a rating sites
  4. taking special note what is said about them on Forex Peace Army
  5. I trade smaller amounts and then withdraw half my balance and see how quick they pay (they were fine)
  6. the place where I failed here with Investors Europe is checking that they are indeed regulated with Gibraltar and Mauritius

but it is all water under the bridge now

thanks again and I hope that this discussion will prevent other people from getting burnt like me with this scam broker - Investors Europe

cheers
Nitzant

3439

FYI, Gibraltar is extremely strict with companies and fund managers who operate from there because the government wants to attract large investor business, so if a company is actually regulated by them then you can be sure that they’re going to behave themselves. And to be sure the message gets through loud and clear, the regulator is currently pushing new rules that would set the maximum fine at GBP 200,000,000 - yes… two hundred million pounds!

3440

For those offshore traders who like to trade many pairs, exotics too, FXChoice almost doubled their tradable pairs from 28 to 51:

https://myfxchoice.com/trading/forex/?utm_source=FX&utm_medium=email&utm_term=list&utm_campaign=currencies