How to speculate with only 4 to 6 hours a day? scalp, day trading or swing?

Beginner Questions
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OK folks?
My first post here on the forum (in addition to the presentation).

I wanted your opinion on what speculation I should use for my profile.

Scalper, day trading or Swing?

Here are some of my considerations.

I have only approached 4 to 6 hours a day to speculate. These hours will most often be in the evening between 7:00 pm to 01:00 am UTC -3: 00 (São paulo, Brazil). Between 6:00 am to 18:00 pm, I work as a field technician, so I don’t operate during the day.

At first I prefer Forex (USD / JPY) because of the schedule.
But I also think of the HK50 Hong Kong.

Swing would apparently be the best, you may say, but in my service I could hardly monitor or speculate. In that case what should I do as my open position during the day?

And finally, I really like watching the chart all the time so my preference would be scalper or day trading but I don’t refuse the swing, since I am a beginner I should resort to the easiest option I presume.

With the profit of speculation I intend to raise my capital and live on Forex lol

Thanks in advance

Sorry for the english, I’m using google translator

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@Johnny_orionFX

You really like watching the chart all day? hmm there’s your answer, end of day swing trading for you then.

'having a price quote is like having a slot machine - you end up feeding it all day"

Ed Sekyota

The last thing you want to be doing as a beginner is dedicating quite so much time to it if it’s real money.

If you devote 6 hours a day to a demo account I dare say in a year you’ll pick up a thing or two but real money - IMO forget it.

You are correct swing trading is the better option for most. There are exceptions but chances are you are not one of them - yet.

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“And finally, I really like watching the chart all the time so my preference would be scalper or day trading but I don’t refuse the swing, since I am a beginner I should resort to the easiest option I presume.”

You really like watching the chart, because you are a beginner. That’s my opinion.
After watching it for 6 hours everyday for a year, it might get pretty boring.
And if you are interested by scalping or day trading, I think it’s also because you are a beginner and that you want to try to apply what you’ve learned as soon as possible.

However your probabilities of being profitable will be much much higher by doing swing trading.

Let’s say you use the 4H chart, you’d need to watch the chart only once every 4H (you can ignore that if you are sleeping).
If you use the daily, watching the chart once or twice a day is enough.

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This is a very realistic comment on your present situation.

But that is not a problem. If you are fascinated and enjoy watching charts and experimenting then do so, but on DEMO! The main thing to take away from this quote is that your current enthusiasm for screen watching is not likely to be long-lasting and therefore is not a good basis on which to build you trading career plans.

This is premature and probably not a good idea anyway. Your first focus is on reaching a stage of earning consistently and in a variety of conditions. If you ever get to that stage then is the time to consider whether full-time trading is a good idea or not. There are many problems with relying on trading income for a living such as health problems, changing trading conditions, changing personal psychology and ambitions, financial requirements with a family, and so on. If you live off forex trading then you have to trade to earn. But if it is a sideline alongside a main job then it is great additional income whenever it seems wise to trade. There is a huge difference.
Ok, we do hear of trading millionaires etc but to earn big money in a short time involves huge risk-taking and the forex market is littered with wrecked accounts of those that tried. Some may succeed, most will fail miserably.
Just focus for now on learning to trade, that’s all.

Be careful!!!
There is no such thing as the “easiest” option. You will find that most traders will offer their view of what is the best way to trade, but it is actually what has proved best for them personally and is not a “universal truth”
All the different trading styles have their own differences but they also have their own similarities. Whatever style you choose you will still need:

  • clear and well-defined criteria defining your entries
  • even more clear decisions concerning your various exit strategies, such as stops and target levels
  • which markets and market sessions to trade in
  • what position sizes
  • how much capital to risk per trade and across all open positions
  • how to journalise and analyse your trading history

These are just some basics, and if they are not present then your trading results will be erratic whatever method you choose.

Do not just absorb the clichés that frequent forums such as Price Action, Naked Charts, Swing Trades, Scalping, Indicators, whatever. Search, read and practice all that you find, and learn what they really mean, how they are formed or calculated, what are their advantages and weaknesses, and what they might offer specifically to you and your circumstances and to you as a person. Not all gloves fit the same hands and there are no universal easy trading methods.

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That is a lot of time spent in front of the screen. Any form would work.

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I like doing it, I like watching the charts, but then it is easy to get distracted after an hour or so.

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What always amazes me about traders is how we do it for the freedom and then chain ourselves to a trading desk all day

Ah human nature

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Ha Ha! THere’s nowt stranger than the human being - except maybe the human trader! :rofl:

But, seriously, I think you are being just a little unfair here. I don’t think anyone is chaining themselves involuntarily to a screen - those that do it, want to do it, I guess? But I think most of us grow out of it eventually - especially when the results over time start to raise suspicions that “was it really worth all that effort”. :slight_smile:

But I also think that day trading is seriously overly criticised and its failings are more due to the trader than the trading?

Most day traders seem to suggest their problems are more to do with personal traits such as lack of discipline, lack of patience, over-trading, revenge trading, as well as a lack of control over risk/money management issues. These are all real and very common and very critical issues - but they do not mean that short term trades are a total no-go. It all depends on finding the right approach to suit the person.

For example, I and some others I know, trade short term off basically long term charts. It is what I call taking bite-size chunks out of the underlying move. I do not sit in front of charts at all much. I first check my overall view from daily/4-hour charts, and use my 1-hour for my trigger. But that just means I check in on PC or mobile roughly every hour and only go to my trading platform if and when it looks like a trade set up might be on the radar. Sometimes it is very obvious that there will not be a set up for a long time and there is no need even to look.

There are also big advantages to day trading. It means one trades only when one wants and when it suits. It does not matter at all what the market does in between. If I am suddenly reminded that we are off visiting for the day then I just close the PC, I have no open positions to be bothering me in the background.

However, having said that, I also do not believe that one can easily and consistently trade intraday just by taking lots of impulsive trades off, say, 1m or 5m charts without any kind of “big picture” in the background. It takes a very special kind of human mind to trade quick changes in direction with no logic or reason. Humans naturally look for logic and reason in things and this kind of “micro” vision of market movements is fraught with random and irrational “jerks”. I doubt anyone makes consistent and worthwhile income from such trading.

But maybe the best way for any newcomer is simply to try on demo whatever comes their way and learn through doing and developing.

But, as a last note, I would add my own vote to swing trading as probably the most balanced and promising approach to trading. But who am I to express a bias without any proof or justification (apart from the fact that I am still wandering the corridors of BP forum after so many years! :rofl:)

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@anon46773462

You make some valid points. I was thinking of this yesterday. I have a strategy that works a dream on the 2 hour charts on Bitcoin (CFDs).

I’ve been long Bitcoin on a daily chart for a few days now, any way was flipping to the 2 hour thinking ‘man if i traded intraday I’d make a killing’

I even got a setup yesterday and was thinking of staying up for US session. But then started thinking do I really want to affect the quality of life to stay up and maybe not even have a trade to show for it?

I know the money is just waiting to be picked up but something just makes me think Im good not having to check my mobile every two hours

I do give day traders are hard time - but for a reason. Most newbies are not ready for it. It usually ends in disaster and bitterness

However I always state that there are some who can do it well - maybe with time anyone could learn to do it - but blowing up your account before you’ve even got one year behind you isn’t going to help.

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Hy everyone,
First of all i need to tell that my experience is only 18 months in this business so first of all i’m trying to learn something.
As i can see the copy trading can be fast key to success.
In US is funtioning the CTA type of accounts, in a copytrading Platform is almost the same thing.
Now my question comes naturally, is a better way just to contact a professional trader?
Don’t mean to ofense but in my opinion is necessary to hold an experince of at least 5 years on this business in order to start producing money from trading.

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This is a totally valid point. One I forgot to mention. The timezone in which one lives is surely a very valid criterion in deciding trading style and market sessions. I admit that day trading suits me also from this point of view. The London session is my morning and the NY session is very conveniently my evening, i.e. from 3:30 to midnight. The NY EOD is actually my midnight, which for me is perfect timing.

I totally agree with you, at least from what I have seen on BP and from the published facts from the ESMA brokers that 70% of their clients lose money. But those statistics do not necessarily mean only daytraders lose. I think the main reason is that there is no real formal training programmes for retail traders as there are for other professions, there is just a vast chunk of information, both useful and otherwise, which the newbie is left to sift through alone mostly. And then there are sharks, and then there are the know-it-alls, and then there are the retail traders themselves who can’t wait to learn to swim first and just jump in with foot hard on the accelerator!
But perhaps one of the greatest reasons for blown accounts is nothing to do with trading styles and knowledge! Maybe a big proportion of losing accounts is due to the fact that anyone can open an account as long as they have money! It surely must be the case that many wannabes are simply not suited to this kind of business but there is no filtering entrance criteria to stop them. I mean, we have all seen the posts from people hoping to turn their 10-100 USD life savings into a life-changing dream of helping relatives and kids, but do they have the personal qualities to make it? and on top of an inadequate equity? and do the brokers stop them?

My same waffling rambling reply here, too!

But, I have said more than I should and I’ll leave it at that before the vigilantes dig out their garlic and stakes. I think we have given the OP plenty to think about, anyway! :joy: :+1:

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@anon46773462

Yes barriers to entry are low but I’m glad of that it’s how I got in.

There is no structured training as you say and while regulators have forced brokers to provide some training often it just reinforces more trading not better trading.

I actually set up my blog to impart what little I know - complete with all my messups. And without trying to get readers to purchase ‘a trading course’.

If you have read my about site page I mention how disappointed I am in the content out there - it’s always got an agenda.

New traders need to approach their learning like they would an apprenticeship but they are going to have to make the tough calls about what to learn and from who.

Sorry this thread was supposed to be about best timeframes and how long screen time you should devote to it.

Oopz

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Well, thank you all for your help.

I slowed down … I go slower I saw that the hole is lower down lol.

I will follow your advice and choose the swing, but only when I have prepared, ok.
The day trade or Scalper is not compatible for me at the moment.
I will finish Pipsologia (which should be a priority) and read books on how to deal with mentality in this field. This quarantine made me a little anxious to look for alternatives if my job was cut.

Finally, I wanted one more help from you.
Alongside Pipsologia what can I read and learn about swing specifically? or should I focus only on Pipsology?

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@ErolIsmail

I think copy trading is a legit way to make money. My advice to someone wanting to trade is don’t. If they are so stubborn to ignore my advice they have potential.

Personally trading provides so much more that money. It really is a calling and I guess I’d be doing it for free if I had to.

Learning to trade is one of the most challenging things you can do, but with challenge comes growth - which is why I’d would never use a copy trading service or auto bot.

However if you want to take that route my advice would be to think like a fund of fund hedge fund manager. Do you know how detailed their due diligence is?

Hell you could become an expert in choosing a copy trading service - there is personal growth in that.

Good luck

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I have been trading for several years. In fact, I’m a trade junkie. I have blown up my account more times then I can count trading the lower time frames. A few months ago, I went Cold Turkey and forced myself to go to a Daily chart. So I open , close or adjust my stops at 5 pm NY time and then walk away. I miss the rush, I really do, but I have tripled my account balance in less then 90 days. I trade very small sizes, started with 1 micro and now up to 0.5 mini’s. Mostly the GBP and EU crosses, my fav being the Gbp/Jpy. ( NO CAD CROSSES EVER). If you have a system you like, give the daily charts a try and see if you profit. Best of luck !!

Bob

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Hi,
Best of luck trading. What I would do is try scalping for one month and the same for day and swing. Then see which one suits you best. If you really want to grow your account quickly scalps, short trades you can compound your money a lot quicker than swing trading. Compounding is a very useful tool once used correctly.
Take your time to learn well and keep looking at the charts. You may never get bored looking at them. I am looking at charts three decades I am retired and still watch them all the time.
I hope you do really well

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If you want pips and a good trend trade, anything but two safe havens (USD/JPY) would yeild profits. Set up your pivots on the 4hr chart and if daring enough put automatic entries in

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@BobB

I think alot of beginners need to see your post. I too warn on the dangers of day trading before your ready - daily charts are much more appropriate.

Incidentally it took me 8 yrs to become profitable and in the end i too was a trade junkie.

I’d be wary though that you’ve trippled your account - the emotion of greed is forever lurking.

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Agree. I increase in very tiny 0.01 micros and only if all trades in a cycle have closed in profit over all. Greed and fear are the killers. Baby steps for sure my friend !

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The point is that in paralel with my studies and training i just choose to follow a trader.
In this business the beginers whole together are loosing huge amounts of money, i don’t want to be just a beginer pretending to be a trader but on behind to loose money so copy trading shall be a good decision.
Meanwhile i can trade more but on a demo account

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