Ict

[ILovePizzaMore]

[QUOTE=“IyaJenkei;489886”]

People make it more complicated than it is. I can’t think of 100 ways to combine the tools. Doesn’t mean I need to use them all. And you’re right what works one day won’t the next and if that’s your “edge” you don’t trade that day. You don’t trade until it comes up again. But bayern his tools don’t give and edge and he did give a system. Haven’t you been reading?[/QUOTE]

Lol more complicated then it is…? Like Clint needing to make a glossary to just keep track of all the terms being thrown around in ICTs threads?

[JackMarkets]

People make it more complicated than it is. I can’t think of 100 ways to combine the tools. Doesn’t mean I need to use them all. And you’re right what works one day won’t the next and if that’s your “edge” you don’t trade that day. You don’t trade until it comes up again. But bayern his tools don’t give and edge and he did give a system. Haven’t you been reading?

Unable to have a discussion without resorting to sarcasm it seems. According to my research on myfxbook if you have a decent edge/expectancy (1-5 pips) according to winning systems you should have a 50-100% + per year. However, ICT taught traders do not have that edge -thus his tools give no edge. Show me an example where someone has demonstrated that his tools have had an edge over a one year period on a verified system if you want to demonstrate that they do.

I won’t hold my breath.

[IyaJenkei]

The problem is everyone wants a free ride. They want a list of do this here and that there. Ill admit there’s a lot of subjectivity. Doesn’t mean that with the proper study and time you can’t make money from them. In then end it’s your responsibility don’t blame Michael for **** other people did.

[IyaJenkei]

[QUOTE=“JackMarkets;489893”]

Unable to have a discussion without resorting to sarcasm it seems. According to my research on myfxbook if you have a decent edge/expectancy (1-5 pips) according to winning systems you should have a 50-100% + per year. However, ICT taught traders do not have that edge -thus his tools give no edge. Show me an example where someone has demonstrated that his tools have had an edge over a one year period on a verified system if you want to demonstrate that they do.

I won’t hold my breath.[/QUOTE]

Jack what does give an edge? I’m just curious. If support and resistance doesn’t, and fibs don’t. What does? A doji at resistance? I can do a lot of things. Maybe it’s not that I’m unable just that I choose not to…

[JackMarkets]

The problem is everyone wants a free ride. They want a list of do this here and that there. Ill admit there’s a lot of subjectivity. Doesn’t mean that with the proper study and time you can’t make money from them. In then end it’s your responsibility don’t blame Michael for **** other people did.

That’s not it at all. You and many other of his followers seem to think that everyone was expecting to get rich from his systems. Not really. They expected to have a fair and objective discussion on whether the system gave results like EVERY OTHER THREAD on babypips. I have never live traded any of ICT’s methods, but I did spend a weekend going through the manual backtester on forex tester for one years worth of data to find it was not particularly good. Where woolo etc are annoyed is where is ICT and his followers were not objective and did not tell the truth about their trading results.

Lets imagine this was a French language discussion forum where we were all trying to learn French. There are loads of learning systems: Rosetta Stone, Rocket languages etc etc. In comes ICT who tries to teach a revolutionary new way of learning French. Except its just rehashed bits of other learning systems and it isn’t as good. He professes to have learned French and several other languages using his system. His followers all claim to be fluent at French because of his methods, but in fact refuse to demonstrate. At last ICT is demonstrates on a trip to Paris that he can’t even string two words together and none of his followers can speak French conversationally despite learning for 2 years. His followers claim it was a ‘great system for learning French’ anyway, despite the fact that ICT can’t speak any of it. They also claim if you use his methods and work hard, you can learn it and its your fault if you cannot.

But the fact is that Rosetta Stone, and Rocket languages IS BETTER and would have given better results - learning the ICT language system was a waste of time compared to time better spent studying elsewhere. This is just the same as in trading. The fact that IyaJenkei you now use the Mastergunner method for trading speaks volumes. The ICT trading method is not very good compared to other methods, and was falsely promoted. Woolo etc are quite annoyed at the falsehood of “ICT’s language system”, and the fact that ‘everyone’ said it was great when there were standard methods out there that were far better. Yes, the system was free, but the system was also nowhere near as good as it was claimed.

[JackMarkets]

Jack what does give an edge? I’m just curious. If support and resistance doesn’t, and fibs don’t. What does? A doji at resistance? I can do a lot of things. Maybe it’s not that I’m unable just that I choose not to…

I’ve researched and written some findings on a variety of babypips systems (3 ducks, Big E etc) that have an edge and I will write them up when I have the time.

[peterma]

I have never commented on ICT’s personality in the past, I have no knowledge of the man and obviously improper for me do so now.

I have some knowledge of his videos wherein he taught what are commonly referred to as the ICT tools or concepts.

Many refer to these tools as being too vague, or too widespread, or too curve fitting and so on, others say than in fact they are not ICT tools at all and they have seen these same tools either being taught or in use elsewhere in the market.
I saw one criticism mention the words ‘information overload’.
Others criticise that despite their best efforts they failed to successfully implement the tools or concepts.

All these criticisms are valid - for the person who is making the judgement.

The concepts or tools are not ICT’s, indeed in many videos he rightly points out that these concepts are generic and not his inventions, only the names that he has applied to the concepts are his.

Joseph Stowell and the ‘naked close’ or the TBS (you guys are going to have to look that one up) - ICT and Judas.

Larry Williams and his willspread, ICT and SMT divergence

Richard Wyckoff/ L Williams smart money/specialist’s trap - ICT S&D syndrome

That is just some of them - I suppose the big difference is it costs me money to learn from some the other guys, ICT always focussed on what could be learned for free, the vast majority of resources shown in his videos were free of charge resources such as Barchart, or Netdania etc.

I think the big difficulty for some traders has been trying to use all of the concepts instead of focussing and expanding slowly, although perhaps that is a certain trait of many of us new learner traders.

Two btw’s :-

First, I disagree with ICT’s decision to remove the youtube videos, his videos and so his choice, my opinion.

Second, I’m not ICT in disguise

[BayernMunich]

I have never commented on ICT’s personality in the past, I have no knowledge of the man and obviously improper for me do so now.

I have some knowledge of his videos wherein he taught what are commonly referred to as the ICT tools or concepts.

Many refer to these tools as being too vague, or too widespread, or too curve fitting and so on, others say than in fact they are not ICT tools at all and they have seen these same tools either being taught or in use elsewhere in the market.
I saw one criticism mention the words ‘information overload’.
Others criticise that despite their best efforts they failed to successfully implement the tools or concepts.

All these criticisms are valid - for the person who is making the judgement.

The concepts or tools are not ICT’s, indeed in many videos he rightly points out that these concepts are generic and not his inventions, only the names that he has applied to the concepts are his.

Joseph Stowell and the ‘naked close’ or the TBS (you guys are going to have to look that one up) - ICT and Judas.

Larry Williams and his willspread, ICT and SMT divergence

Richard Wyckoff/ L Williams smart money/specialist’s trap - ICT S&D syndrome

That is just some of them - I suppose the big difference is it costs me money to learn from some the other guys, ICT always focussed on what could be learned for free, the vast majority of resources shown in his videos were free of charge resources such as Barchart, or Netdania etc.

I think the big difficulty for some traders has been trying to use all of the concepts instead of focussing and expanding slowly, although perhaps that is a certain trait of many of us new learner traders.

Two btw’s :-

First, I disagree with ICT’s decision to remove the youtube videos, his videos and so his choice, my opinion.

Second, I’m not ICT in disguise

Since you’re one of the few level-headed individuals on this forum, would you be willing to give your views on something:

1. Do you believe ICT is as successful as he purports to be?
2. Do you believe that his myfxbook account blow-up was done on purpose?

I must admit, your answers to those two questions would give me massive insights into what sort of person you are good sir

[BayernMunich]

Since you’re one of the few level-headed individuals on this forum, would you be willing to give your views on something:

1. Do you believe ICT is as successful as he purports to be?
2. Do you believe that his myfxbook account blow-up was done on purpose?

I must admit, your answers to those two questions would give me massive insights into what sort of person you are good sir

By the way, I have a feeling you won’t reply to those questions, and I guess I understand why. In any event, it would be really eye-opening to have a current ICT follower’s view on those 2 items.

[yunny1]

… it’s your responsibility don’t blame Michael for **** other people did.

So I guess if the gullible followers are profitable… then it is not thanks to ICT either :33:

[Sweet_Pip]

I disagree with ICT’s decision to remove the youtube videos, his videos and so his choice, my opinion.

I’m glad they’re gone. I could never get through one of his videos without falling asleep …lol :24:. Everything was “after-the-fact”, and his sticky voice just droned on & on & on… and the intros, don’t get me started! :eek:

[IyaJenkei]

[QUOTE=“yunny1;489915”]

So I guess if the gullible followers are profitable… then it is not thanks to ICT either :33:[/QUOTE]

That’s true yunny. Everyone is on their own. Michael didnt do much for anyone except semi show the way in convenient video format. That was about help for me.

[Hogarste]

I’ll take the test for the sake of being consistent and not being affraid to voice my point of view. I would try to help anyone I could to improve in their trading (or any other life pursuit) if my own time permitted. That tells you more about my character than my answer to these questions.

1. Yes. I have questioned this a couple of times, but if forced to answer, yes, I think he is who he says. I base this opinion on the presentation and analytical skills I’ve seen him demonstrate and the ease that he was able to discuss his perspective and think on his feet with. ICT has professional quality presentation and analytical skills in my view.

2. I will say this: I’ve studied one of the trades that blew up over and over again. It was one of the Draghi speach trades in early February when fiber went down. His FXbook performance defies logic to me. If he were using the tools he taught, he would not have been on the wrong side of this trade. I’ve heard him discuss his opinion regarding the market several times, and he’s usually right. So no, while I do not know what happened, I do not believe his performance in the challenge reflects his true skill as a trader. Was it on purpose? Only he knows for 100% cetrain.

Since you’re one of the few level-headed individuals on this forum, would you be willing to give your views on something:

1. Do you believe ICT is as successful as he purports to be?
2. Do you believe that his myfxbook account blow-up was done on purpose?

I must admit, your answers to those two questions would give me massive insights into what sort of person you are good sir

[peterma]

QUOTE=BayernMunich;489908]Since you’re one of the few level-headed individuals on this forum, would you be willing to give your views on something:

1. Do you believe ICT is as successful as he purports to be?
2. Do you believe that his myfxbook account blow-up was done on purpose?

I must admit, your answers to those two questions would give me massive insights into what sort of person you are good sir :)[/QUOTE]

In a some videos ICT’s personal wealth were mentioned by him to the effect that he made sufficient income from trading that he didn’t need to charge for teaching.

My belief is that he is a full time trader and since he never has asked for or any payments it’s therefore probable that he is making a living from trading.

I’m not aware of any actual claims of particular wealth or success, certainly not aware of any such claims on the videos, but maybe in the posts - I just don’t know.

The Myfxbook thing was a sideshow for me, one that I had no interest in. I never logged into it, I recall reading the thread at most twice near it’s end and posting once.
At the very beginning of that exercise one of our own posters on the regular thread mentioned that ICT was going long fibre (or maybe short) - this information dumfounded me totally, it was against everything that was in the ICT videos from the past 3 years - from that moment I decided that that particular thread was not for me.

Do I believe the account drawdown was deliberate? - not a notion, I’ve absolutely no idea and indeed no opinion and zero interest, a challenge account occurred in the old videos - my interest in that was equally zero.

The purpose of the myfxbook thread when being announced I never really understood in the first place so perhaps I was biased against joining in from the start.

Just read the second post Bayern, that’s the big problem, I am a market follower.

I am of the opinion that ICT also follows the market, hopefully all you guys do too.

There is one enemy, he/she has greater resources than us, he/she has better information than us, I will learn from anyone, regardless of who they are, if I judge that that person can better inform me of my enemy.

If I am an ‘ICT follower’, then I am also a ‘follower’ of a very long list, some of whom have excellent threads on babypips, others who have been life long traders and others who have started out more recently.

You see, one time I posted that each day before trading I exorcize all bias - this give me freedom to see the charts fully, for me it’s the same with learning - I then can better judge all teaching material.

[Hogarste]

Really great reply Peterma. Very well said.

QUOTE=BayernMunich;489908]Since you’re one of the few level-headed individuals on this forum, would you be willing to give your views on something:

1. Do you believe ICT is as successful as he purports to be?
2. Do you believe that his myfxbook account blow-up was done on purpose?

I must admit, your answers to those two questions would give me massive insights into what sort of person you are good sir

In a some videos ICT’s personal wealth were mentioned by him to the effect that he made sufficient income from trading that he didn’t need to charge for teaching.

My belief is that he is a full time trader and since he never has asked for or any payments it’s therefore probable that he is making a living from trading.

I’m not aware of any actual claims of particular wealth or success, certainly not aware of any such claims on the videos, but maybe in the posts - I just don’t know.

The Myfxbook thing was a sideshow for me, one that I had no interest in. I never logged into it, I recall reading the thread at most twice near it’s end and posting once.
At the very beginning of that exercise one of our own posters on the regular thread mentioned that ICT was going long fibre (or maybe short) - this information dumfounded me totally, it was against everything that was in the ICT videos from the past 3 years - from that moment I decided that that particular thread was not for me.

Do I believe the account drawdown was deliberate? - not a notion, I’ve absolutely no idea and indeed no opinion and zero interest, a challenge account occurred in the old videos - my interest in that was equally zero.

The purpose of the myfxbook thread when being announced I never really understood in the first place so perhaps I was biased against joining in from the start.

Just read the second post Bayern, that’s the big problem, I am a market follower.

I am of the opinion that ICT also follows the market, hopefully all you guys do too.

There is one enemy, he/she has greater resources than us, he/she has better information than us, I will learn from anyone, regardless of who they are, if I judge that that person can better inform me of my enemy.

If I am an ‘ICT follower’, then I am also a ‘follower’ of a very long list, some of whom have excellent threads on babypips, others who have been life long traders and others who have started out more recently.

You see, one time I posted that each day before trading I exorcize all bias - this give me freedom to see the charts fully, for me it’s the same with learning - I then can better judge all teaching material.[/QUOTE]

[peterma]

I’m glad they’re gone. I could never get through one of his videos without falling asleep …lol :24:. Everything was “after-the-fact”, and his sticky voice just droned on & on & on… and the intros, don’t get me started! :eek:

Sweet Pip - many’s the great sleep I had during some of the videos :), although in fairness I would go back later.

Bayern, sorry about the above grammar, ‘many’s the’ is an Irish saying taken as a direct translation from Gaelic.

[woolo]

“Hogarste please dont try to prove anything here. These people need to sort their mentality problems before even start to learn about trading. Wooloo question for you. Do you think you invested a lot of time studying everything about trading and you deserve to be rich now?”

Read more: 301 Moved Permanently

"One word buddy: Confluence.

It’s really sad but if some of you spent half the time studying charts and learning how to trade instead of crying about this and that, you might find some modicum of success. I can already tell, based on the posts, that most have zero hope though."

Read more: 301 Moved Permanently

You see what I mean when I say people avoid the questions with ad hominem fallacies or complete dismissal when it comes to questioning the validity of the tools?

Anyway Hogarste you said:
“Woolo, would you agree that Fibonacci percentages play a significant part in the movement of price by the larger institutions? I think the answer to that is fairly obviously yes. If we agree that the markets move or are moved in accordance with Fibonacci (and other tools) would you not agree that it makes sense for an aspiring trader to learn how to utilize these tools? Sometimes the markets retrace beyond the 62%-79% range, and we don’t know for sure which it will be. That does not mean we should not try to find ways to look for opportunities where the odds are in our favor.”

Read more: 301 Moved Permanently

I agree that when measuring price swings that price swings around Fibonacci numbers. That is a given and is easily observable. I don’t believe the actual golden ratio number or the fibbs are of any importance personally but more so they happen to sit in an area of psychological importance. There are quite a few cool psychological case studies and tests involving stock and share trading that explain why people sell before a resistance or support in these areas around 33% off the distance too a predicted turning point. Anyway thats off topic.

My point is that ICT’s tool box covers the majority of possible price swings including but not limited to fibb numbers. Every single price turning point on a chart can be assigned an ICT entry pattern of some sort. He’s basically named recurring patterns but has not in anyway presented a way of predicting which pattern will form.

What has never been explained or demonstrated by anyone is the consistent picking of the right pattern at the right time. It simply cannot be done with what he has presented.

[Sweet_Pip]

“Hogarste please dont try to prove anything here. These people need to sort their mentality problems before even start to learn about trading. Wooloo question for you. Do you think you invested a lot of time studying everything about trading and you deserve to be rich now?”

Read more: 301 Moved Permanently

"One word buddy: Confluence.

It’s really sad but if some of you spent half the time studying charts and learning how to trade instead of crying about this and that, you might find some modicum of success. I can already tell, based on the posts, that most have zero hope though."

Read more: 301 Moved Permanently

You see what I mean when I say people avoid the questions with ad hominem fallacies or complete dismissal when it comes to questioning the validity of the tools?

Anyway Hogarste you said:
“Woolo, would you agree that Fibonacci percentages play a significant part in the movement of price by the larger institutions? I think the answer to that is fairly obviously yes. If we agree that the markets move or are moved in accordance with Fibonacci (and other tools) would you not agree that it makes sense for an aspiring trader to learn how to utilize these tools? Sometimes the markets retrace beyond the 62%-79% range, and we don’t know for sure which it will be. That does not mean we should not try to find ways to look for opportunities where the odds are in our favor.”

Read more: 301 Moved Permanently

I agree that when measuring price swings that price swings around Fibonacci numbers. That is a given and is easily observable. I don’t believe the actual golden ratio number or the fibbs are of any importance personally but more so they happen to sit in an area of psychological importance. There are quite a few cool psychological case studies and tests involving stock and share trading that explain why people sell before a resistance or support in these areas around 33% off the distance too a predicted turning point. Anyway thats off topic.

My point is that ICT’s tool box covers the majority of possible price swings including but not limited to fibb numbers. Every single price turning point on a chart can be assigned an ICT entry pattern of some sort. He’s basically named recurring patterns but has not in anyway presented a way of predicting which pattern will form.

What has never been explained or demonstrated by anyone is the consistent picking of the right pattern at the right time. It simply cannot be done with what he has presented.

You do know how to multi-quote right?..lol. What part of all that is your comment?

[IyaJenkei]

I have a Question for the profitable traders here. Im gonna say yunny banker and Simon. How did you start out? I know Simons story. I know yunny trades support and resistance and price action. And I know banker trades fundementals fibs I think and I’m guessing support and resistance. Would you say your trading is objective? Or subjective? In yunny and bankers case I would guess largely subjective. I doubt you take every pinbar at support. It depends on what’s going on behind the scenes I’m sure some of the more experienced traders don’t even think about a lot of stuff they’ve just been Doing it so long they just do. What I’m saying is you guys I’m assuming have put in the hours you know what set ups you like, and what setups you like to stay away from because you’ve watched price so much. New traders are still learning that and a lot of them system hop or tool switch so much they don’t get intimate with that method enough to know. They don’t stick around long enough to see the little characteristics that speak to them. In my opinion anything can give an edge. But not everything will give you an edge. Really sorry for the grammar and punctuation guys on my phone at work lol and was in a hurry.

[BatterRam]

If anyone actually listens to what AK has been preaching will tell you that he lost in trading.

Just think about this he comes on here to tell everyone that they should stay off forums to be successful yet didnt he learn how to be a “successful” trader from ICT on a forum. Something just does not add up.

Hey hey, glad to see the ICT fan-club still goin’ strong!!!

Just thought I’d make a quick ‘nick (I won’t be making my usual rounds to the regulars, lookin’ at you Sweetie Pip ) and explain some common misconceptions about me and my time on the forum:

1. Depending on where you are in your development, leaving the forums (at least during trading times) can be crucial to your ability to conduct independent analysis. For others, I get the sense that they are here to Talk about trading… and when it comes to the actual “Doing”… they suddenly have “better things to do”. As if all of a sudden they are too cool to give up their old lifestyle to become a successful trader (Lookin’ at you SweetsPip and Bob’smanInk)

2. I am profitable using MY OWN method. It’s all mine now, so don’t be givin ICT too much credit for my skill set, but there is no way I would go a day without saying he was the #1 contributor to my current success. More important than the tools, is how he taught me to BE a trader… the psychology, and the other subtleties nobody else on this forum talks about.

3. I’m not ashamed of the money I lost learning how not to be stupid. I was stupid, and it cost me lots of money. I got over it… why can’t you guys? was it your money or something? hah. Also it was no Inheritance money, I don’t know who invented that crap but it was all money I earned from working at my “minimum wage drudge” LOL

Something further to ponder, and please… ponder it carefully.

Why would profitable traders need proof that other traders are indeed profitable? Short&Long answer… THEY WOULDN’T.

So everytime you see one of these troll-like ICT-police ask for “proof” of trading success, just know with 100% certainty that THEY are not profitable! It is simple logic my friends, and it shows all your true intentions as clear as day.

PS
I hope you guys never stop talking about me or my mentor… it makes me feel all warm & fuzzy inside