Only if it can print out in braille…
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I’m one of those who still drinks the Kool Aid. I don’t think that for me it’s the land of wealth and glory that I’m attracted to, as much as it’s that someone has taken the time and effort to try to help others to learn how to do something many people percieve as being very difficult, without asking for anything (refusing actually) in return.
Personally, I dislike one sided arguments, and this thread still attracts people to comment. I would hate to think that someone totally new to trading does not explore ICT’s teachings after reading all this, as his videos are probably one of the best free trading resources I’ve seen on the internet with regard to understanding forex market analysis. There are tons of folks out there trying to get your money, who have free videos on Youtube, but ICT is not one of them. Say that he has an ego, say that some of his videos take some patience to get through, say that something really weird happened during the contest, say that not everyone can trade that way, say that he delivers his free stuff later then he plans to, and to an extent I’d agree. But, I’d wager that ICT is who he claims to be, and successfully and professionally uses the tools he teaches.
Bruh, that is some real faith right there… Hope it pays off for you at the end of the decade.
you know what i like? Hardcore evidence… which once upon he tried to bring. Failed miserably… After that i still wonder how you still have some inner dignity to defend such people. I said it once, i will say it again. It doesn’t matter if its free, if its the time he is putting into those videos, its a question whether the HELP is actually HELPFUL and not HARMFUL. I can teach you a lot, i can cheery pick every move you want, i can invent a system which will one time be looking at the market from one perspective, another time from different. And after all that i will claim that YOU, the user, who doesn’t understand, rather that ME as a teacher FAIL to teach.
The main point is if its FREE it doesn’t mean it won’t do you no harm. There are a lot of things that you have to UNLEARN before learning the right way.
[QUOTE=“PipJoker;557913”] you know what i like? Hardcore evidence… which once upon he tried to bring. Failed miserably… After that i still wonder how you still have some inner dignity to defend such people. I said it once, i will say it again. It doesn’t matter if its free, if its the time he is putting into those videos, its a question whether the HELP is actually HELPFUL and not HARMFUL. I can teach you a lot, i can cheery pick every move you want, i can invent a system which will one time be looking at the market from one perspective, another time from different. And after all that i will claim that YOU, the user, who doesn’t understand, rather that ME as a teacher FAIL to teach. The main point is if its FREE it doesn’t mean it won’t do you no harm. There are a lot of things that you have to UNLEARN before learning the right way.[/QUOTE]
Ok, you win. But since you believe in hard core facts, can you list the tools of ICT’s that the readers should stay away from, so they won’t need to be unlearned. Can you also list some tools or sources that others should consider. I’m not asking you to teach anyone, just to support what you’re saying. I can think of lots of things from ICT (stuff he teaches not owns) that I don’t want to unlearn.
You know when you attack someone you should make sure you don’t look two faced or confusing as well… I remember you used to thank him for doing this work for free and I am not sure what happened in between that stage of yours, all though I can probably guess what happened to you, I don’t distinctly remember him or anyone saying PipJoker you must trade this system period There. Is. No. Other. Way.
And since you want proof…
I find this one particularly ironic because the claim the blind leading the blind yet… well the post speaks for it self doesn’t it
Now before you get defensive, I would advise you to move on unless you feel your time is worth forever dedicated to hating someone whom you; don’t have to see everyday, interact with on a daily basis, or especially don’t have to take advice from because it doesn’t make sense why you keep coming back demanding to be justified.
Also side note if you constantly demanding to be justified I don’t think that would be particularly healthy trading psychology wise because when your bound to lose your bound to lose big.
Any ways to wrap my point up, you hit a rough patch and needed someone to blame besides yourselves and it goes out of hand. We all do it to keep ourselves from getting super depressed and I cannot force you to see/think/do something you’ll refuse to I’ll leave it as a friendly good luck no matter what path you choose.
No truer words said. 
[QUOTE=“Kevin LaCoste;559609”] No truer words said. :)[/QUOTE]
You folks that bash ICT are so quick to demand proof and verified results, and then when asked to support your argument with real examples of what doesn’t work, it gets really silent. Newbies, do yourself a favor and check out ICT videos. Don’t think that market maker profiles, s/r, fibs, etc is something to be unlearned.
Much like some other threads on BP - ‘is forex gambling?’, for instance - I don’t see this one ever reaching consensus.
So I’d simply advise anyone to check out the teachings if they are seeking more information and draw their own conclusions. Most of the contributors to this thread already have an opinion, the continued exchanging of which will only serve further to confuse rookies, I would have thought.
Makes you wonder how many are going back through their posts now pruning posts before someone like me goes and digs up how broken they really are from all this.
I definitely agree that the newbies should check it out if they are interested… I would reccomend they pay careful attention to ICTs posts leading up to him posting his myfxbook where he publicly blew 70% of his account trading his own money
Also I would reccomend the newbie who is interested in ICT to note that of the dozens of ICT fanatics that followed him religiously on this forum… None have demonstrated any proficiencies and if they were completely honest with themselves and others on the forum, don’t have anything to show for it after two years of following the guy
Yes. By all means check it out!
The silence runs both ways mate.
Every time someone asks one of you long standing fanboys to pitch up some verifiable evidence of your consistent success trading this comedians advices nothing appears.
Just one big fat…silence.
Neither you, this tansen fella, his number 1 fanboy akeakamia or any other loyal follower can step up with any degree of confidence whatsoever & slap down hard evidence that the past 4 odd years of intense tuition has resulted in any profitable track record to write home about.
He’s nothing more than hot air & ego.
ST is correct, it has become an endless argument.
I’m not a ‘trader’, just a learner. Fundamentals are what I and others that use FX in their work rely on. The Eur/gbp cross is my work interest, fundamentals tell me that Gbp is strengthening and will continue to do so.
Do persons that exchange currencies for a living use the fundies? - yes, very much so, but they also use charts, they will pull up a charts and ‘eye ball’ it when they are being pushed for a competitive quote.
This is what sparked my interest in T.A., I read all the books, watched many videos, went on ‘free’ courses provided by a broker - I understood a lot of it and came to the conclusion that TA was rubbish, binned the many books that I figured were written by authors that were good at writing books - one of them even called their readers ‘dummies’ - figured he was right.
Then came ICT - I don’t much care whether he blew up 1000 a/c’s - he made sense of TA for me, something the others couldn’t do - the idea of supply and demand made little sense, pin bars at resistance seemed silly when different brokers’ charts would give different signals depending on their feed time.
The idea of session times (kill zones) made absolute sense, the notion of a ‘judas swing’, or ‘bulge’ as explained by Wyckoff, I understood, the application of fib levels - watched by so many - again I could see their effect in the ICT videos.
The application of s/r , taught by many for a fee, were explained, again their use was shown in detail.
With some small exceptions, the majority of TA as taught in the ICT videos could have been taught on a line chart - this I could absolutely understand - price was price, I often thought that an expression of what ICT was trying to teach would be best called ‘price behaviour’.
The only negative that I saw in ICT’s teaching videos was the sheer volume of information, many learners were jumping from item to item without fully learning or understanding the first - he constantly urged to focus only on one aspect before moving on to the next, often to no avail - maybe this is why he scrubbed the old videos and started over, at a slower pace.
Have I anything to show for having watched the videos except for a better understanding of TA? - I will have.
I’m leaving the forum for a while, I am concentrating on the creation of 2 (supa dupa) systems, both fundamental with TA, one ICT taught concept included, but a lot of the understanding learned from him. It will take me about 3 years to complete this task (including live fwd testing), then I will share with all.
In the meantime I wish everyone well in their endeavours weeks, months and years ahead.
As Monsieur Jacques would say - Bon Chance et Bon Commerce
If you think grinding your way through umpteen 45 minute brain numbing episodes of that sludge has offered you keener odds of coming up trumps then you’re even further away from reality than you were when you first stumbled across that joker 2 years back.
You can ditch 90% of the crud he endorses for starters & you might, just might stand a chance of holding your own.
Here’s a little tip for you & other naive dreamers hanging on the every word of that time wasting comedian…focus your time & effort resources on the link between options contracts purchases & the corresponding directional spot rates bias
You’ll save yourself about 2.5 years of wasted effort & time.
If you listen hard enough you might be able to hear the cogs clicking & churning.
Dbl, you are right and you are wrong.
You are right when you say to look for ‘links’ to the fx market - any decent system must not be compiled on the basis of predicting, or attempting to predict A using A - logic tells us that such a system is illogical, predicting price based on the actions of price (even if it is an indicator, itself based on price) is doomed to failure - in my opinion that is.
Thus, often, ICT will introduce a ‘B’.
You are wrong when you consider that there exists any naivety in my thinking or understanding of the fx market.
Am I a dreamer? - yep, big time - many years ago dreamt of creating a business from scratch, no capital, little experience and just a dream.
Was my brain numbed whilst learning, and still learning? yep, but I have to confess that I am hooked on learning, from languages, to computer programming, to FX and book reading (non fictional) in between, so there are many times my brain becomes numbed.
Many thanks for your little tip, however, I have also learned over the years to take the great Jesse Livermore’s advice on tips.
Now as I was saying in my last post;
In a local language - Sin é
Heh, i really love this post
Yes, i did thank him and prayed to him and talked with him and participated in live groups, i listed to him crying when he told his story about made millions when he was young losing all that, finding god and what not This is completely 100% true. And i participated in this madness for 3-5 months, i think. I don’t really recall the exact amount of hours i devoted to this so called “system”. His thread was actually my first thread which i read from the beginning till the end. I really believed in those days that there are legit guys who WANT and CAN help newbies. That is why, i know what failure this system is I participated in front seat.
I am not ashamed of anything. His failure actually opened my eyes and made me understand that any system which is promoted and praised by a lot of followers are most often a slaughterhouse. Thanks to him i never raised a hand to buy any membership in any traders running site. It saved me some money in the end even tho i lost trading his system.
This is the reason why i attack him and his “teachings”. I know what it feels to be a “part” of some sort super traders who “know” the key 
That is the reason why i continue on promoting to not listen to him. Rather try something on their own.
Sorry for not replying sooner I have been busy with other stuff rather than explaining myself where i was and why am not participating more in this thread
Alright tools (don’t remember much, but at least what i remember):
OTE - optimal trade entry. More commonly know as 123 pattern. Most of the time newbies don’t even know which one to choose before entering the market. You could draw OTE entry both direction pretty much every day. Not to even mention weekly OTE. The core basis which is used in his system fails right here. After a while when he started trading his live account and even recently i checked his few trades where he brags, i don’t recall him entering into the market using that tool. Of course later on he cherry picks all those moves in his videos 
Judas swing - what the **** is this ****. Confusing the traders and braking out from asian session high and low? How do you know that it is the judas swing and not a simple reversal or a continuation of previous trend? Once again not the accurate tool you are looking before entering the market.
hidden OTE - when this was introduced i was shocked. One time he uses ICT reflection which is 127 extension which by somehow moving fib becomes 79 fibonacci levels. Other times he just picks round number and shows that it was a hidden divergence. I mean seriously? Which one do you know to use before the move? Or do you draw all of those OTES in one chart and look for which goes along with your day’s bias and then you enter? Complete nonsense.
I don’t recall any more… If you new “tools” please share. I will gladly talk about them too.
To sum up - if you didn’t already know the system has to have some trading rules of entry and exit etc. Looking at ICT system there are a lot of “tools” which could be use both ways (either to short or to long). And most of the time it becomes obvious after the move. But before the move its just chaos using his system. For example MA based system is easy. MA is below - look for long. MA above - for short. On top of that you can add another tool for confirmation - price action or whatever. After that another etc…
No problem with the delay in responding. I’m sure we all have busy lives with jobs, family, commutes, etc. Very often I go through periods where I don’t follow along on BP, because I’m just too busy. The reason I keep responding to this thread is that sometimes it turns into an ICT bashing session, where people try to write clever one liners to be funny, or criticize his performance in the contest etc, and I feel like this should be a two sided issue. Most of the tools ICT teaches people to use are mainstream tools and are commonly accepted to be helpful things. But he is a dude who (I do believe) makes his living at trading, and opens his playbook and says ‘trendlines not so much, fibs yes, S/R yes, understanding bank patterns yes, etc.’
Personally, I don’t want someone to come along and say “here is a fool-proof system of a-line crossing b-line, and you do this” because I don’t believe that if something like that does exist, that it would stay proftiable if it were made very public. I like the fact that successfull / professional tradng requires some ability to think, and also some ability to turn the thinking off, not to mention persistance to the extent of being stubborn.
Can we can agree that every week (and day) there will be a bias / range that occurs? Can we agree that we can sometimes figure out the bias to come based on what’s already happened using the higher time frames S/R and the market structure. Can we agree that for trading Fiber or Cable that the USDX, Bond Yields and COT can be a little helpful in forming bias opinions? ICT teaches the power of three and the market maker patterns, which to me seem like someone explaining the practical usage of Dow theory. Not to mention the behavior of banks relating to identifying liquidity, and I do believe that Fibonacci numbers are used by the banks in manipulating price, in fact I think this is obvious. Also, divergence of various types and pivots. I know there is a lot here that can get confusing and even seem contracidcory, but I do think there is a combination of information one could take from all of this, that when applied to strict risk managment program can give good results. That is why I think he tries to release updated learning series.
I think the biggest problem with ICT, had been the fact that some people took it so far that they were criticizing others who didn’t use his tools, and BP got a little over the top. That bothered me too, as many of the non-ICT crowd are people that I enjoy interacting with, the folks on Home of Golf’s thread many others. I bleive in ICT’s methods, but do not think they are the only road to success. My understanding of market behavior and directional bias has significantly improved, and there is nothing that I want to unlearn. I agree that things got a little obnoxious for a while, and often a pendulum must swing in both directions. But, as non-professional, I would recommend ICT’s teachings, as many of them are part of mainstream market analysis. Yes… ICT has an attitude sometimes and yes he is clearly very proud of himself… To me that is offset by the incredible effort of making all of the videos.
To be balanced, I think ICT’s stuff takes time to learn, and I think feeling comfortable analyzing the markets is a slow process for most people, and that successful trading requires varous other talensts. I want to feel that I have a certain level of proficiency in my trading before I leave my job, but I have to be awake and focused from 630a to 10:p est, and getting up to trade a bias in the London session or trading NY session when I’m rushing to get to work and can’t be focused is very difficult at this point. I’m busy one month out of three at work with long hours, so it’s often two steps forward and one back, just because time is so restricted. So NO, I can’t show results today in dollars and cents to convince anyone, though I clearly do a better job when I follow his methods, and I’ve never blown an account or had more than a few hundred dollars of draw-down out of my original five thousand dollar account.
I’ve mixed in other things to the way I approach the markets this past year, including a good bit of S/D, stucture of all sorts, better use of pivots, and trying to understand who is doing what and where on the charts, and I am making progress. I recently found out that my job is being moved overseas next year, which will put me in the position of either succeeding or failing. If I succeed I will be grateful to many that I’ve learned from many sources, but ICT is very high on that list. If I fail, I will take responsibility for it myself.
[QUOTE=PipJoker;560503]Sorry for not replying sooner I have been busy with other stuff rather than explaining myself where i was and why am not participating more in this thread QUOTE]
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Firstly, I use [B][I][U]some[/U][/I][/B] of his concepts, not all. The rest of the guidance came from Ali for his expansion on bond analysis, Wade extending my long term swing aspects, and especially ClarkFX for his core basis he put out for me from his personal tools. I mean not to burst your bubble or anything, but I never truly made it past the first discipline video all of it was condensed and summarized and expanded upon by these three gentlemen above.
Second, I do not need to prove myself to you and you can make up whatever conceited reasoning you want at the end of the day because no matter what I do I am not trying to convince you, nor PipJoker, or anyone else who is looking for an emotional dumping ground. My response to Joker was that of what he had posted but in the end I do not hold any resentment or dissatisfaction for his own trials and tribulations because of the viciousness of this profession. We are all facing the same responsibilities, demons, and conflicts of trying to make a living. In fact after doing this since starting it two years ago I’ve only started this year to stop schaudmenfreuding other traders because the hard fact is we all maybe one or two trades away from that stage of mode they may have fallen into.
I’m surprised none of you know about Jay/Eremarket although I’m sure you’ll dig it up eventually I will put it on the table because if you don’t remember Jay was a proclaimed futures trader who offered a signal service here and did well but ended up blowing up in the end. So in that regard I was fairly close to him because we used to skype chat about things other than trading. He would even give me quick free calls from something fundamentally happening like a call on GBP/CAD one pre-market when Oanda still had pre-market trading he told me there was something happening with the interest rates and that the GBP/CAD would rocket so get in now. It opened, it gapped up and took off another 50 pips I don’t remember the time I think it was around summer of 2011? I just remember acknowledging it but never took it, but boy was I sour about missing it. I surely defended him to the bitter end, but the mystery still remained if we as a con or just a burnt out trader? The facts were, yes, some of his concepts were generic enough to work and it can be attributed to just pure luck, but the structure was not out of the ordinary procedures of a regular trading strategy. As the time passed we got a little more in depth and he seemed to know a few tricks a regular schmo wouldn’t know from simply reading one of the recommended books.
Thirdly, I don’t know if double_6 is a mask for you and who you really are or how burned you may be but you don’t seem to add anything to this debate your just screaming, not litteraly more like making passes with your comments, with the majority audience because it’s the cool bandwagon thing to do and you strike me as the person who would revel in this type of misery and satisfaction? Seeing as you somehow went when I was looking you up, much of your profile is closed off and somehow went from 3 pages of posts down to 2 I would imagine your cleaning off your posts to seem like the hipster saying I was the first to hate ICT and call bs.
Lastly, don’t get me wrong I don’t hate you or anyone like I may have when I started. I’ve learned to grow up from such naive behaviour and seeing as I have met Jay I am slightly better off because I learned things good and bad such as not to marry one trading style and to keep moving forward and building myself as a person as well as my trading tools. Had I not met him I wouldn’t have met Clark. I have not been as active here as I have in the past because I’ve noticed the culture of this forum grows increasingly more hostile instead of people whom are willing share ideas and help work on themselves. So really I advise you to either learn something useful from any of this or move on because like Peterma said it’s become an endless argument and you have to think about what you stand to gain about “being right” on the internet.