Ict

The Lobby
189

LOL, a bash ICT thread, Naaaaaaa, couldnt be!!

190

You what? Paaaaah.

191

I would never trust the judgement of anyone who would intentionally lose money to teach a lesson no one requested or even learned from for that matter.

Everyone keeps saying that they learn all this great stuff.

What possibly have you learned from his alleged purposeful failure?

192

I got the Chris Lori videos via megaupload back in the day. They did not offer anything even remotely resembling an approach to trading. Just him using emotive language while talking about support and resistance, fibbs and trend lines.
I wrote Chris Lori off as one of the no proof online mentors making a living from selling freely available material. The trade entry methods he described are all on the babypips school site. We are simply talking about trend line breaks in the London session, types of trade entries.

ICT has a similar approach in his videos. He uses words that build emotional investment in his videos. He appeals to your deep need to succeed so you listen.

I waited eagerly for every video thinking that perhaps there was something coming that would allow me to call these highs and lows accurately. In all my forward trading following the principles he set out in his videos I had not come out ahead. I had always hovered around break even. This was not unique to me. Everyone else who posted real independent results in the thread was also ending up around break even. We would win and loose in pretty much equal measure.

Nobody could post consistent success. Not one person could post a link to an account that had been growing steadily for a year or so.

I cannot believe in something without seeing the evidence behind it. My brain just is not wired in that way. So as my account was making no progress and the other users on the threads who I asked for help were telling me ā€œThe tools work! Iā€™m making consistent gains everyday! If your loosing trading is not for you! You canā€™t look for evidence of success you need to believe in the tools and yourself!ā€ I saw that there was no evidence of the tools working for me or anyone else posting proof so time to go.

I was ready to call it a day and move on. Then the whole myfxbook account was brought up. So I stuck about. This could be the proof i needed to see that the tools worked and it was just me messing them up. Seeing ICT trade successfully pulling out money every week and every day as he said he can do in his videos would surely show me that trading the tools was possible. If that happened I would stick around and keep watching his live streams, videos and tweets. If he could actually trade then this would be worth the time and attention.

So I waited. Then the myfxbook came out. Then he lost money. Then the lies started coming out about teaching people what loosing trades look like. Then he lost money again. Then teaching the people copying his trades a lesson. All of these explanations for why he lost coming after he had lost.

At the same time he was promoting his presence at a chris lori seminar. People on twitter and babypips were confirming that they would be attending. They were all forking over thousands of dollars. It was pretty clear where this was going now.

I tuned in to one last live session. It was just after the largest loss on his account. I sat there and just watched the out pouring of support and love people had for the man. Then he arrived. I expected something to be said in regards to the losses. However my jaw dropped as he just went into his standard speech. He drew out support and resistance lines referencing awesome trade entries he had taken. He talked about the high that had formed and the SMT, OTE that formed at the high. He just kept on going talking in hindsight about how awesome his tools were. One person spoke out and said ā€œGreat but this is all hindsightā€ they were ignored and turned on by the group. (ā€œAre you mg99 or Woolo?ā€ one person asked lol) Eventually Michael talked about his myfxbook. He simply said that he had taken buys at sell signals to throw of copiers.

At this point I was out. Iā€™d seen all I needed to in order to convince me that the man had been selling snake oil. There was no evidence that he could trade, no evidence that he was successful and no evidence that his followers were making money. The only conclusion possible was that the whole thing had been a waste of my time.

Anyway thats a rough outline of my ICT experience, iā€™m sure there are others with a similar mindset.

193

No, we just donā€™t like donkeys that are telling everyone they ARE a money machine.

Having said that, in fairness to him, he has so far had a frighteningly good resemblance to our local cash machine. Both of them seem to give away money left right and centre.

Childish and immature?? Yeah probably, so I think Iā€™ll stomp away in a huff and take all my videos off youtube. No wait, thatā€™s not original anymore, someoneā€™s already done that.

194

Just a little further information regarding

Domain name: ict.com

Registrant Contact:
D.T.D. Investments N.V.
B. Meijer ()

Fax:
Herengracht 497
Amsterdam, NH 1017BT
NL

Administrative Contact:
D.T.D. Investments N.V.
B. Meijer ()
+31.0206261696
Fax:
Herengracht 497
Amsterdam, NH 1017BT
NL

Technical Contact:
Denit Internet Services BV
Support Desk ()
31. 31.203371801
Fax: 1. 31.203371802
Kabelweg 21
Amsterdam, NL 1014 BA
NL

Status: Locked

Name Servers:
ns1.masterdns.nl
ns2.masterdns.nl

Creation date: 06 Aug 1997 04:00:00
Expiration date: 05 Aug 2014 04:00:00

Domain record for ict.co.uk

Domain name:
    ict.co.uk

Registrant:
    A Hugh

Registrant type:
    UK Individual

Registrant's address:
    The registrant is a non-trading individual who has opted to have their
    address omitted from the WHOIS service.

Registrar:
    Daily Internet Services Limited t/a Daily.co.uk [Tag = DAILY]
    URL: [Daily.co.uk | UK Domain names | VPS hosting company](http://www.daily.co.uk)

Relevant dates:
    Registered on: 05-Dec-2005
    Expiry date:  05-Dec-2013
    Last updated:  29-Dec-2012

Registration status:
    Registered until expiry date.

Name servers:
    ns1.4d.co.uk              64.91.253.57
    ns2.4d.co.uk              64.91.253.58

WHOIS lookup made at 18:14:22 13-Feb-2013

ā€“
This WHOIS information is provided for free by Nominet UK the central registry
for .uk domain names. This information and the .uk WHOIS are:

Copyright Nominet UK 1996 - 2013.

Domain record for ict.us
Domain Name: ICT.US
Domain ID: D1835232-US
Sponsoring Registrar: UNITED-DOMAINS AG
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 1408
Registrar URL (registration services): united-domains - Die besten Adressen fĆ¼rs Web.
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited
Registrant ID: P-1872984
Registrant Name: Roland Morger
Registrant Address1: Muehlebachstr. 84
Registrant City: Zuerich
Registrant Postal Code: 8034
Registrant Country: Switzerland
Registrant Country Code: CH
Registrant Phone Number: +41.445008880
Registrant Facsimile Number: +41.445008870
Registrant Email: roland (dot) morger (at) ngn (dot) ch (I edited to take out the dots and @ signs so that it is non clickable and cannot be picked up by spam bots)
Registrant Application Purpose: P1
Registrant Nexus Category: C31/DE
Administrative Contact ID: P-1872984
Administrative Contact Name: Roland Morger
Administrative Contact Address1: Muehlebachstr. 84
Administrative Contact City: Zuerich
Administrative Contact Postal Code: 8034
Administrative Contact Country: Switzerland
Administrative Contact Country Code: CH
Administrative Contact Phone Number: +41.445008880
Administrative Contact Facsimile Number: +41.445008870
Administrative Contact Email: roland (dot) morger (at) ngn (dot) ch (I edited to take out the dots and @ signs so that it is non clickable and cannot be picked up by spam bots)
Administrative Application Purpose: P1
Administrative Nexus Category: C31/DE
Billing Contact ID: ASCIO1550530
Billing Contact Name: Johann Hermann
Billing Contact Organization: united-domains AG
Billing Contact Address1: Gautingerstr. 10
Billing Contact City: Starnberg
Billing Contact State/Province: NA
Billing Contact Postal Code: 82319
Billing Contact Country: Germany
Billing Contact Country Code: DE
Billing Contact Phone Number: +49.8151368670
Billing Contact Facsimile Number: +49.81513686777
Billing Contact Email: info (at) united-domains (dot) de (I edited to take out the dots and @ signs so that it is non clickable and cannot be picked up by spam bots)
Technical Contact ID: P-NCT21-124033
Technical Contact Name: Hostmaster Hostmaster
Technical Contact Organization: united-domains AG
Technical Contact Address1: Gautinger Strasse 10
Technical Contact City: Starnberg
Technical Contact Postal Code: 82319
Technical Contact Country: Germany
Technical Contact Country Code: DE
Technical Contact Phone Number: +49.8151368670
Technical Contact Facsimile Number: +49.81513686777
Technical Contact Email: hostmaster (a)t united-domains (dot) de (I edited to take out the dots and @ signs so that it is non clickable and cannot be picked up by spam bots)
Technical Application Purpose: P1
Technical Nexus Category: C31/DE
Name Server: NS1.UDAGDNS.COM
Name Server: NS2.UDAGDNS.COM
Name Server: NS3.UDAGDNS.COM
Created by Registrar: ASCIO TECHNOLOGIES INC.
Last Updated by Registrar: UNITED-DOMAINS AG
Last Transferred Date: Tue Apr 24 00:21 :09 GMT 2012
Domain Registration Date: Wed Apr 24 15:42 :45 GMT 2002
Domain Expiration Date: Tue Apr 23 23:59 :59 GMT 2013
Domain Last Updated Date: Sun Jan 27 07:02:22 GMT 2013

>>>> Whois database was last updated on: Wed Feb 13 18:12:45 GMT 2013

Think we can safely say that at this time ICT AKA Mr Michael Huddleston does not own any of those domains. However, there is no guarantee that they wonā€™t be purchased or obtained in the future.

195

Same thing happend with Jackoā€™s students.

Heā€™s right. As a previous poster had said we should give ICT some of dat positive energy. Because we all know that even after trading for 20 yrs and being a fund manager his performance gets affected by anonymous people on the interwebs.

196

Youā€™re right, and it was very naughty of me. I shouldā€™ve said, ā€œNot saying for a second that itā€™s yer man whoā€™s got them, just saying theyā€™re not available.ā€

Oh wait, I did, right at the end there.

197

This is the sad truth. People can teach you how to drive a car, but very few can drive fast to be professional drivers, that depends on you ability to evolve.

You can get info about all the technical tools you want freely in the internet.
You can get all the info about economic fundamentals that affect forex in the internet or a library.

But man. Understanding things in a deep manner to be able to use them is a different story. And itā€™s mainly not dependant of intelligence, this is not quantum mechanics as someone said before. This is ridiculously simple compared to being a great theorical phisics scientist. But it requires you to like it enough to work day after day, learning something new, improving your technical and emotional skills. There is no fast path, there isnā€™t in any difficult profession where you want to be in the top 5%.

And if you canā€™t distinguis the difference in quality from reading a random article explaining a tool compared to a good mentor (for example Chris Lori) explaining it to youā€¦ well good or bad for youā€¦ wouldnā€™t know what to say. I personally have great respect for good teachers, they make my life easier.

198

Id say more people that try to become quantum physicists succeed than people who try to become traders that succeed. Just a guess but at least 80% fail right.

199

My apologies The Home Of Golf

I should only have quoted the line above.

There is no intention to pick holes or diss anyone. Posted purely in the interest of factual information.

200

Anyone can teach. All you need is information and you can tell others it, effectively becoming a teacher.

But thatā€™s not what people want ultimately. They donā€™t want to be told eight different ways how an indicator works. They want to be led to a path of personal financial gain.

The problem is that for this to work you have to find something that fits you. There is more than one way to dice this tomato.

There are a half of a dozen threads of ICT jargon where people are continuing to try to make heads and tails of it. The tools are great they say. Yeah? Show me.

I may not be an expert at building an garden shed, but if I spent two years hacking away with a saw and a hammer Iā€™d at least have some semblance of success.

Itā€™s the successful implementation of the tools that give worth to the tools themselves. And not a single one of you can contest that these tools actually work and profit consistently.

Flipping a coin, just as well could constitute as a tool. That doesnā€™t mean itā€™s an effective tool.

And if I flip that coin for two years, Iā€™m not going to be getting any better results. I could flip it in the morning, when itā€™s raining, when bond prices are up, when my wife is on the rag, and when the moon is full, but I will still end up with the same results.

Rather than the tools, you should be focusing on the edge that tool provides. If you use it enough will you stand to obtain profit. And if so, then you should look to use that tool as often as you can.

You can call it a Judas Swing, an OTE, a BEEB or whatever else ICT branded. But in the end those were all just fancy ways of saying you were just flipping coins.

Spend your next three years seeking an edge, instead. You might figure out how to call a dog a dog much faster.

201

Brother you nailed that out of the park. RIGHT ON!

202

Thereā€™s a difference with learning something and learning control of yourself. Learn whatever you want but if you donā€™t have the discipline, patience, and emotional fortitude to apply what youā€™ve learned consistently through the wins AND the losses, you will fail. Over and over.

So lets stop talking about the concepts Michael uses and start bashing individual traders. Makes a lot more sense to me.

203

Imho once you have a profitable method and a detailed trading plan the psychology part is going to sort itself out. For most at leastā€¦

Psychology is overrated.

204

True if the method you employ works. You can have the resilience of a commando, the commitment of a gold winning olympic athlete and the emotional control of the Dalai Lama. If the approach lacks a statistical edge then all those things are irrelevant.

205

Well, it seems as if the babypips community has seen sense. I said the same conclusions (about the results being entirely retrospective and that there was a question about him trying to be an affiliate for Chris Lori) that are being made now in October yet I got hammered for it. It would be nice if a few of those people apologised but I donā€™t really expect them too.

Hereā€™s the informative part of the post:

For your information, I backtested ICTs basic trading method for about 6-12 months: power of three, OTE, kill zones, and daily support and resistance (4 of the tools) and it generally achieves a -10% to +10% per month with a 2% risk per trade - posted this in May 2012 I think. It does not enable you to become a millionaire at all through my testing and backtesting. In fact there are many other more reliable ways of trading that require less chart gazing, not sitting through killzones from 6am GMT to 10.15am GMT for the London KZ and then 12.00GMT to 3.30 for the NY KZ and then 1500 to 1700 for the LC.

What people are saying here is pretty much true - the tools that are being taught by ICT do not offer any edge on the market over any other simple tools. It doesnā€™t really matter if they are free. They certainly do not offer you the returns that he claimed. As Woolo has said, no-one can produce results using them for very good reasons.

Hereā€™s the ā€˜bashingā€™ part of the post

I also posted reasons why people would so adamantly follow ICT despite the evidence. Basically it is a classic con - the conman gives the victims supposed control, promise of wealth and a big playing field. The longer the con has gone on, and the more people believe the bigger it is. The more time and money (money invested into trading in this example) the victim invests into the con, the more emotionally invested they become so they cannot see outside the con because they do not want to believe that they fell for something because people think they are inclined to believe that they are too smart to fall for it. People donā€™t want to dent their ego, which is why they stay in losing trades etc and why they wonā€™t back down from their emotional investment with ICT.

206

It is very sad to hear that it seems like some (if not most) of traders here are only relying on one person to show them or to teach them how to trade. There are so many high expectations of the materials alone and expecting a good/profitable result and when it didnā€™t work for them, they blame that person who showed them how to. The reality is those individual who didnā€™t see any improvement into their trading didnā€™t really took the time to look at themselves and asked if this tools/system is really works for them or if trading in general is for them. Why relying on one personā€™s strategy? Why not branch out and go somewhere else even if it is a paid for courses or check out other freebies strategy from here? I think it is very irresponsible to blame to someone else their failureā€¦ but the truth is that failure is on their own.

We keep saying that treat this venture as a business but what would it takes for your business to grow? To spend your time blaming someone else for your failure or you look for some solutions on how to improve your business? Think aboutā€¦ to grow it takes time but how do you spend your time to improve?

Even if you are only using as simple as Support & Resistance or a Fib then watch the market moves via price action ā€¦ you can make money even if it is smallā€¦ I donā€™t see anything to talk about here rather than for entertainment and just something to talk about (ICT and or Chris Lori) because we are bored?

1 Like
207

If Lori or his office gets wind of all the controversy surrounding this guys departure from the forum + the strange developments related to his comical fxbook exposure I would imagine heā€™ll cut ties with ICT in a heartbeat.

Lori has spent a long time generating & cultivating a reputation out there & he canā€™t afford to be seen associating with this kind of circus.

I hope folks arenā€™t signing up to Loriā€™s seminar just because ICT is linked to it. I will be extremely surprised if heā€™s still onboard by this time next week let alone in May.

208

Lori in the last 24-48 hours cut ICT out. He quickly saw his name getting dragged into this.