Inner Circle Trader's Pro Traders Club 2012 - 2013 Series

Beginner Questions
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Hi! My first post after using ICT’s materials for several months. Hope it’s not too amateur :slight_smile:

This is a M15 chart of GBPUSD for the week which I have a few questions on.

  • An Intermediate Term Low formed on Wed at 1.6070.
  • (Point 1) Going into Asia, price broke the previous Up Fractal, turning the MF up. At this point, MF on H1 chart is still down.
  • (Point 2) At LO, price broke the Up Fractal on H1 chart.

Based on the attached diagram posted previously by Manta, we can see that the MF had turned up, and we should be looking for an OTE Buy.


Questions:

a) At which point do we consider it really going up? Is it (1) or (2)?

b) At LO, price moved up so quickly that I thought it could be a Judas Swing. Looking back at old charts, I find that Judas Swing sometimes do break the MF, and we may be faked into entering the wrong direction. What are the hints that tell us it is not a Judas but a real change in MF?

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[video=youtube_share;xB7cd-c2odI]http://youtu.be/xB7cd-c2odI[/video]

[B]GLGT[/B] :57:

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I have been following behind the scenes for a while, but just wanted to offer my input. I certainly have found success and am very thankful for what ICT has done here. My losses that I take are mostly my fault although there are a few that are frustrating. But I take each of them as great learning experiences. I think what PipHangar is saying is he wants to know more into what is going through Michael’s head when he studies the market. For example, Michael clearly stated he was looking for longs on wed and thursday. But why? What was he thinking over the weekend that would give him these clues? How did he know that would happen and that price would bounce so much from the 1.6080 level. Also why the 1.6080 level anyway and not a lower key level? I think its the unsaid things that Michael clearly has a grasp on that frustrates PipHangar so much. I do think it would help to get a walk down of everything that Michael thinks when it comes to a trade. Maybe this could be done for one entire week. Its all those little insights that Michael has that are not really explained that at least I would like to know more about. As far as the MyFxbook thing I don’t really understand it. We all already know Michael can kill it consistently when it comes to trading. All that we will see with myfxbook is that he made a trade and how many pips he won correct? He already gives us this info already so I’m not sure what the benefit really would be. Will it help to know that he made a trade? yeah, maybe. But I for one would rather know the details of why specifically he has the insights that he does.

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@AK
I completely agree with everything you said. I was just saying that those small things are still important. Actually ICT explained everything very well in the video he just posted. Thank you Michael. Those small things like what was his thought process in determining his tp points are still important. I mean I see it, but maybe some people don’t or it helps to just see his reasoning over and over again.

628

Once again, great PTC! Thanks Michael!

To PipHanger and some. I honestly don’t understand your point of view here. Requests, requests, requests. I see it as ICTs purpose here is to give us the tools. Show us the way. But the whole work is on us from then on. I personally wouldn’t want to see anything like real-time trade signals from him. Yes, that would serve as a confirmation that ICT is for real and he makes a lot of moniez with his concepts but if you can’t believe he does from what he shows us here, the insights, the deep knowledge of how markets work, etc, then I guess this is no place for you. If I was to see his trades real time (say on myFXbook) it would just cloud my analysis as I may have a different view many times (and that’s good! cause I’m here to learn) and then just try to take the same setups he does.

I hope I made myself clear enough. A little hungover toaday :wink: Good luck to everyone, whatever you decide to do with the knowledge Michael gives us. Just don’t go to ‘hater’ mode.

629

Oh my days…I can’t believe the s**t posted in here over the last few hours by you Piphanger. You are starting to be as bad as Vladul or however you spell the name!. Personally the ICT post directed at you was very mild considering what he had done for you previously.
Just a note to everyone reading this… I am here to learn because I cannot trade profitably/consistently… I choose to be here… but it pisses me when people feel its okay to openly attack the fella who gives up his time to help people like me in HIS threads.
There would seem to be a ton of paid for services out there and frankly I doubt very much that they would even scrape what ICT lays at our feet! For those who are new to threads/forums… there usually is an unsubscribe button if you found your way in here by mistake.
Anyway rant over…
Oh and smile it will soon be Christmas :slight_smile:

Whilst trying to compose this it would seem I am not alone…

630

Hi guys.

Can someone tell me if there is some difference between Hidden Stoch Divergence and Classic Stoch Div?
When there is classic Div it is stronger signal than hidden?? Or these div are same about the power of possible reversal signal??

Thanks

Daniel

631

Michael took down that piphanger live stream…I wanted to check that plan out…

632

No it’s here Babypips Inner Circle Trader - live streaming video powered by Livestream
There’s are 2 channels.

633

Hanger and others the thing you must realize is sometimes its best when your teaching people NOT to give them everything because in the end they will not work or strive towards improving or doing it themselves.

What I mean by this is all the successive people who aren’t here took something that Michael introduced adapted it to suit them and combined it with the other tools they pick up or use to suit their personality. For instance, Michael is a swing trader for the most part where as I am a swing and intra-day I have adapted his concepts to an intra-day basis for my equities but there is a separate file in my head for swing trading forex and the catch to this is it was developed from an intra-day idea in my head about counter-trend trading that Michael said you can do but is sometimes ill advised.

My point is if he spoon fed you everything why are you crying so much? I’m pretty damn sure he probably had a few quibs about where this would NOT be feasible such as if your strategy is a BEAR COUNTRY strategy obviously common sense dictates your strategy would fail in a BULL COUNTRY which I guess you would flip flop your findings.

I have an idea of how ICT comes to these but like he says the market will do what it wants and the only truth will be P.R.I.C.E I was suspecting a bear move and later into the week we’d see hard rallies into 1.3080 -1.3100 of the euro because based on the HTF were bullish but market structure was broken last week so therefore combined with the range concepts the little dip down was the range I fibbed to find around 1.3080 - 1.3100 to find OTE short based on the HTF premise that we will rally into it to bear.

So you know a few of us are sour towards you hanger because you had so much special attention directed towards you where we mostly suffered in silence and dogged it out you whined like a child, got your share of attention and special attention which is rare, now your coming back and crying out because he probably either intended you to figure the rest of it out yourself or you don’t remember what he told you.

I was suspecting a plausible rally in the week at 1.2800 because there was a key level I marked with a weekly or monthly pivot there within 15 pips so I assumed myself before the PTC even came out that we will have weak rallies and strong bear moves into there until we reach there the sides of the coin will be flipped we will see weak bears and strong rallies once that area has been hit. This is something you have to strive for yourself and when I have the time which assuming I will now a days to do the week in advanced analysis you will not need michael holding your hand because he’s not immortal and **** happens. He can be gone the next day either on vacation or personal matters then what will you do?

You can’t depend that he will sit there and tell you how to trade I’ve met so many idiots at meet ups who will gladly do that and one specifically I remember was this sweater wearing liar that says “OH I NEVER LOSE I JUST TAKE MY 3C IN OIL AND CALL IT A DAY” I have not encountered ANYONE that doesn’t lose because I’m pretty damn sure when he said oil, the S&P, and the Euro all line up at around the time he said is immensely comical because oil has not followed the 6E in the week trend wise period.

But you know nobody here is your daddy and realistically give less of a sh1t how well or how bad you do especially considering now and you can sulk and blame anyone you want I doubt anyone will give you the same attention and sympathy as before unless their gluttons for punishment

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Geez, I thought I subscribed to this thread? I was receiving email notifications upto page 7 and now at page 62 already. Anyone else stoped receiving notifications?

Thread specific, I’m having a bit of trouble keeeping up with ICT’s trailblaizing work but the effort shall be made. I come back and see someone’s discontent which is hard to believe, please don’t do anything silly to disharten ICT from his unbelievable input at his own time and expense.

Newbie question: I’m confused about the pivots, I can’t find the daily pivots in the ICT indicators I have, is there an updated version anyone please? Also, do we need to manually enter the data every day or is this done automatically? Any help much appreciated.

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Hi Dan,

As I understand & trade it:
Divergence can indicate a [B]reversal[/B]
Hidden Div can indicate a [B]continuation[/B]

However I only use this as extra confirmation on a set up I’m already watching, and don’t trade using just div alone.

Hope that helps?

636

Working fine here (but could have done without an update today).

I’m sure the indicators here have the pivots:
under the heading "ICT Tools & Resources"
http://forums.babypips.com/newbie-island/36328-what-every-new-aspiring-forex-trader-still-wants-know.html

You don’t need to do any manual work, it’s all calculated.

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Ah, for what it’s worth, I remember when I first started to look at Forex and I used to sit here and look at peoples systems and then at the charts and I never had a clue what I was doing so I didn’t trade.

After, I’d say about 6 momths maybe, I decided, this isn’t for me, I can’t read the charts, I didn’t know what to expect and trading would have been blind throwing my money away. Then I started a new job and forgot about Forex for a while.

Then at the start of the year, 2012, I started looking again to see if I had missed something, and it turns out I did. For me personally it was ICT or Michael as I prefer to call him.

Now I am in no way a consistent trader, in fact even now I have only “demo” traded from the 1st Spetember so I have a long journey to go. I am at a 12% increase however which is very satisfying.

I only currently use OTE at present along with key S&R levels and market flow / structure as I need to go over the other videos again and see if I can understand too better the other material and concepts. The reason I chose OTE however was becuase it made sense to me. Some of the other concepts at present do not so I’ll look at them again at another time.

However now when I look at a chart, I am not just staring in bemusement but staring as I try and understand the picture it telling and I am happy with what I am finding and anticipating.

I feel that it is a matter of time before I understand more and more, but I’ll take it as and when it sinks in.

I guess the point I’m making is for me Michael’s work is making sense, although as I say I have not touched the more “important” subjects as interest rates, divergence etc etc so I don’t expect unrealistic gains. It’s up to me to find the time to re watch all the material and actually understand it. No one else can do that for me. I also have taken a large interest in the psychology of trading in terms of not over trading, only trading when I see an entry I like that has confluences and also buy managing my risk to between 0.5% - 2%.

That way I can’t blame anyone but me, I understand more than I thought I ever would when I first started to look at Forex and I hope to learn a whole lot more. I’m learning not to rush but to understand.

As well as Michael I also appreciate the feedback from PPFX who I believe to be quite successful in his own right but that he also has opened up to Michael’s concepts and adapted these in with his own and increased his own success rate.

Anyway, I stop boring everyone now!

And hopefully the thread can get back on track AGAIN!

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Piphanger, Piphanger, Piphanger:

You are missing something very simple, but very important fella. You missing an R.E.S.P.E.C.T. Respect to yourself, respect to the others, Respect to the ICT. Your way of thinking is just appalling. If you cannot help yourself no one else would.

First of all, let me remind you: [B]you’re not in position to make requests, demands[/B] or whatever else (and no one else for that matter). The man will give what he feels like giving and in his own time. If don’t like it, you’re free to leave I believe. In fact you’ve left (at least twice if remember right), but why the heck came back when not ready?!. If you cannot appreciate the wealth of information shared here you’re plain stupid.

You have the unique and very rare chance on here, to meet and talk to a real life self-made millionaire. And he patiently showing you how is made, sharing his lifelong experience, and what’s more, he even likes you and gives you more attention than the others… and what you do, you bite the hand that feeds you! Never seen such a stupid boy, I’m tellin’ ya!

Now, not sure how old are you, but by the way you think, act and post here, I would say: 15-17 maybe?.. Why don’t you grow up and then come back and see what an idiot you have been… I’m sure you’ll be very ashamed of yourself one day.

I’m once again stunned, by the way ICT handle such an idiots (you’re not the only one obviously). He is content, patient, friendly, and well mannered (see the contrast? See why he is successful and you’re failure?). Just one more reason to have massive respect for him.

If You cannot make it work, does not mean it is not working, pal. Its shame those who are more or less successful using ICT’s methods are quieter than the losers… Seen the recent Aaron’s posts (Aarnog)? By the looks of thing he’s killing it, huh?!.. Using the same very tools and concepts given to you too, Piphanger. Why is that, you have an answer? Maybe, he actually put the work in, believed in ICT and most importantly – believed in himself?.. There are other guys around here, which I know are raking money, but its shame they would rather keep quiet and stay in the shadows. ‘’What about you?!’’, I’m sure you’ll jump about now. Well, I consider myself rather successful too. I started trading live January this year using entirely and exclusively Michael’s approach and methods and I plan to do full year breakdown and analysis in January 2013. As of now, 9 months on, I’m 18+% Positive for the year (with peak at 42+% and recently ranging between 17-26%), and if I go down to +10%, it will be my ‘’cut off’ point and stop trading till the end of the year, so I can assure you, [B]I will finish my first year [U]In The Green[/U], thanks to Mr Huddleston.[/B]

Well, I’m not a good Trader in the slightest, I did (do) ridiculous mistakes, and my success rate as of now is only around 50%, but the risk management and the discipline kept me above water (lots more work to do on that thought). Another example is Petru (PipaRushPetru), he recently finished his first year with 51 pence [B]in the green too[/B]. What about Ake? I’m considering him successful as well. He recognises his weaknesses, he’s fighting them on daily basis and he’s not crying on here: ‘’ICT you’re con, you’re rubbish, you’re scam and fraud, etc.’’ I’m sure he will make it. Because his grown man and takes responsibility for his own actions.

There is few other people here I know, who use ICT concepts in combination with other tools and they making money too. But its up to them to step forward I guess.

The point I’m making here. It is not ICT, it is you fella that is broken. As some suggested earlier, you have very poisonous thinking, very bad and self-destructive attitude and it seems your sub-consciousness wants you to fail. And probably you’re just not made for trader after all. There is standard 95% failure in this industry and cant see why this wouldn’t be valid for the followers on this method too.

I kept quiet till now, trying to ignore the bull**** you’re posting from time to time, but enough is enough. This is my last post addressed to you, and it is more of an attempt to step in for ICT than directly attacking you. Because it seems on here, there’re lots of spectators, but no one would step in to defend their teacher. So, as I said, from now on, you’re on my ignore list fella, don’t want to see the crap you’re posting.

Good Luck in Life!

edit: forgot to add, I was in the same trade yesterday that upset you so much and came here crying, but guess what?! I [U]did not[/U] loose. I got out with +1 pip. make your own conclusions…

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I stop receiving email notifications if I don’t actually visit the thread. I think it only notifies you of the next post after your visit…

And as you said… if ICT’s methods don’t work for you, don’t whine about it, just find something else that does. He can’t be held accountable for everyones psychological deficiencies (trading is 100% psychology after all… )

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Wow those last few pages where quite entertaining!
I am also deeply disappointed in Michael, as he never asked me for my Bank account number to transfer some of his money to me… irony off

Anyways. I wish you all the best PH in what ever you do. And putting on a mcDonalds hat should not be a humiliating thing in my humble opinion. As a side note: I have never cleaned more dirty toilets than in the Restaurant I used to own - and I didnt consider it humiliating work…
I do believe that trading is an art and not a science.
I know I can’t sing oe paint at all… If I had the wish to do so anyway, I could take lessons and put alot of work into it and probably get to a certain level… BUT I do also believe that some percentage of a skill is simply not “learnable” (is that a proper English word?;)) So maybe trading is really not for you… don’t waste more time if it isn’t.
But please don’t throw your Negativity on all of us.

Personally: I am completely on track with my plan and goal in Forex. I can still see steady improvements and thats enough to keep me going. And Oh boy do I still have a lot to learn… my trading yesterday alone is plenty of proof for that;)
Could fill a whole journal on all the things that I DID WRONG yesterday.
I had not a single losing trade in 1.5 months - so it was just about time for the market to humble me down once again;)

Why do people care so much to see Michael’s (or anyone’s) Myfxbook and what not? I just fail to grasp that…
Honestly I want everybody to do well… but above all that I need to admit that I’d like to see myself doing well just a little bit more;)
If it would turn out that Michael doesnt have a lamborghini, and doesnt make millions a year, and doesnt live in a nice house… what the heck do I care? Although I wish him only the very best for all he has done for us - but if I can make my trading better through his teaching, why would I care about if he made 10 bucks or 10 million bucks in the previous month?
At the end of the day I do want to drive a lambo myself, I want a nice house, and I want to make plenty of money at some point… what does Michael or his things have to do with any of that?

Not sure if I managed to state my point easy to understand… sorry if not…
just never understand this (hyper socialist) mindset that I would deserve everything I wish for without some serious hustle.

Lets enjoy a nice weekend and than next week I can get back to work and implement the lessons learned yesterday… lets roll!

cheers

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'm going to upset a few people here because PIPhanger, you did go extreme, and you need to figure yourself out. you have the rage because you have the passion, and that dream you seem unable to achieve is already part of you or even more, has taken control of you. can’t get it, and can’t give it up either. you’ve done the work, dilligently, done what ICT said you should do, done your homework everyday, put money on the line, invested a lot and now you feel betrayed and lost.

market is war, and you are facing an enemy out there, anytime you are about to press the button. it’s not about learning a lesson perfectly and doing it well, as it is about power of your own judgment. looking at the chart, any one, there are lines - at 20, 50, 80, 100, you have fibs with 62, 70, 78, 90, 100, 162 and 200 levels, you have fibs on big frames and fibs on smaller frames, key support and resistance from monthly to hourly, daily pivots and weekly pivots and monthly pivots, trinities and who knows what else. there’s probably a line at every 15 pips that could “MEAN” something. wherever price turns or breaks, there’s a line in 5 pips that “explains” it. which ones really matter? Can you understand why mechanical thinking will not work? do you see why learning a lesson perfectly is not enough? when you consider doing something, look for reasons to do the opposite. watch the balance of sides. if you want to sell, could you see reasons to buy? if you want to buy, could you be wanting to sell? consider that money you want to make is coming from someone else, and they want the same from you.

if this made you stop for a moment and perhaps reconsider what you may have been doing for a long time, than it’s good. please do not shoot the messengers. and good luck whichever way you go, trading or not.

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I love NFP, watching the market move along within a tiny range just waiting to burst.
Anyone up for a game of ‘up or down’?
I’ going with it bursting up to 1.3060 (Fiber) and then down.
No money in the market just a bit of fun

643

Down to 1.2860 then up :slight_smile: (should we see some insane volatility)