Is forex Gambling?

Beginner Questions
103

You buy in, or sell in, (place your bet) with money on the line.

Your margin is your ante.

You place a stop loss based on how much you are willing to lose, and a profit order at where you think the highest potential gain will be.

You base this on a risk reward scenario…

After that, you have NO control over what happens.

The dealer has the cards, and you MAY win, or you MAY lose based on probabilities.

No goods or services are rendered.
Say what you want about providing liquidity, we retail traders are not of any consequence in a market as big as this…

You can’t control the outcome, you can only minimize loss, or attempt to maximize gain. All you can do is use a system that hopefully identifies the highest probability of a favorable outcome.

Speculation at it’s purest simplest form is still a gamble.

Use whatever synonym you need to make yourself feel better, but if your only purpose in the market is to profit, you’re wagering. Pure and simple.

104

Much easier to do in Forex than say… Craps or Roulette. So, my final answer: Forex is a small gamble (Whether or not you are profitable for a period of time) but not as big as most make it seem.

105

Well, whether you want to acknowledge forex as gambling or not, there are some businesses that are capitalizing on it’s appeal to gamblers. Here’s a blurb from one such website…

[B][I]Do you like forex trading? We like making profits too!

We know many people think forex has nothing to do with gambling, but as long as you put your money at stake with the hope of winning more, we are interested! We think forex trading is the latest form of gambling, and anyone can win big with a little knowledge on the subject. [/I][/B]

Forex News, Forex Brokers Reviews, Forex Strategies

106

i agree with you tymen 1. forex is not gambling but it involves high risk like any other business

107

I should not post again but there has been a new set of intelligent posts.

So I will give it one last go. :slight_smile:

[U]In my first posts,[/U] I tried to differentiate between what is [B]gambling [/B]and what is a[B] high risk[/B] activity.
The above quote highlights what I see as an important distinction.

The business may be [B]high risk[/B], but nevertheless, noble.

The casino is obviously, [B]gambling[/B].

It saddens me (sigh), that no one is paying attention. :frowning:
It is attention to these little matters and fine details that are necessary if you are going to be successful at forex.

I have found the best defintion of gambling to be a violation of the command in [B]Genesis 3:19[/B].
Producing goods/services [U]in return[/U] for any reward is a vital factor to differentiate between [U]gambling [/U]and [U]noble activity.[/U]

[B]For better or worse, this is definitely my last post on this thread.[/B] :wink:

108

i was a gambler myself and i know what gambling is realy. i have lost thousands in gambling. you can’t compare forex with gambling. if you do its a real shame. forex is a genuine business which needs a dint of hard work. any sensible person would know what forex is really. i think people who think forex is gambling they are playing it like gambling and they are looking for a quick money. even babypips school says that if you don’t make a system and follow the rules then your strategy would be called gambling. furthermore i have seen educated and professional people trading forex and many bankers are doing it. do you think they are all gamblers. not but they are wise people who are making living out of it and playing it the way it should be. hope people will understand.

109

my last 2cents on this,
Usually when someone asks if forex is gambling it is a complete noobie and what they are really wanting is a reassuring answer that if they trade they can actually make money at it and would not just be throwing their money away…
well that’s me reading between the lines. Even though the OP answered his own question.

Also if I play roulette in a casino I do know what the outcome will be, there is no uncertanty about it. I know that stastically I will loose $5.25 out of every $100 I wager on the even money bets on an American wheel. half that on a European wheel… so even that’s not gambling.

yeah yeah I know… I should shut up while I’m ahead… so that wraps it up for me.

osmosis ameobas
:slight_smile:

110

SDC, or anyone else for that matter, doesn’t need to do anything based on your say so.
From my understanding of his posts, he is of the view that trading fx by speculating on the movement of price, constitutes gambling.

He is expressing a view based on the subject matter. The same as all of us on this thread are doing, & few of us agree with his view. It’s no big deal. Just because we adopt a different view to yours there’s no need to get your knickers in a twist or burst a blood vessel.

And you’re basing that exclusively on the title underneath our/my user name.

You seem to hold a great deal of store in these insignificant titles underneath members user names don’t you :rolleyes:
I’ve seen you constantly refer to the [B]FX-Men Honorary member[/B] badge like it’s some kind of superior medal only reserved for the elite trader classes, LOL.

It’s a title awarded to members who happen to have registered 1000+ posts on the forum. That’s it, nothing more exciting or important than that. Unfortunately, (& in most cases) [I][B]quantity[/B][/I] of posts in no way equals [I][B]quality[/B][/I] of input, more the pity.

You asked a question then proceeded to make a statement based on nothing but your rather elevated emotional state.

So, based exclusively on your familiarity & observation of my trading knowledge, style, strategy plans & risk attitude – what exactly do I need to learn next?
Be specific now please.

Exactly what aspects of trading am I supposedly deficient in?
Please feel free to list them based on your observations of my recent & current trading activity.

Basically, unless everyone bows down & submits to your view of things, they’re all wrong, spitting venom or headed for the slippery slope of trading damnation LOL.

This typical behavior of yours where you stamp your feet & throw your dummy out when you fail to stamp your self important authority on something or someone & can’t get your way, is quite frankly boring & rather tiresome.

Your highly emotional, arrogant & boorish attitude does you no favors at all. You’re full of your own self importance & its about time you realized the trading forum world as well as Babypips site, doesn’t revolve around you.

111

Well put!..:cool:

112

Thank god for that.
Please don’t bother reconsidering.

As per Sweetpips reply - well put & bravo!!

I would also be extremely interested in how he’s arrived at his conclusions of my trading experience & knowledge…but to be honest, I could care less what he thinks & definitely can live without his input.

About time one or two more let the arrogant oaf have both barrels.

113

Its an interesting argument to suggest that if you know the expectany you are not gambling. I’m not sure I agree from the participants perspective for two reasons.

You know the theoretical expectancy, and you know that over enough trials you’ll converge towards the true expectancy. But you really dont know what your outcome will be with any degree of certainty, you only know that the gains or losses will be somewhere within a theoretical distribution after N trials.

If you and a hundred friends hit the casino’s, you wont all achieve the same outcome. Some will get lucky, and some will be unlucky. The sum total of all of the games played will of course be in the casino’s favour due to the negative expectancy of the game your playing. So from the perspective of the casino, they have the law of large numbers working in their favour, and at a push, I might be prepared to acknowledge that from their perspective, the process isnt gambling. However from the perspective of the individual participants, it is gambling.

However, trading is very different to games of chance such as roulette because the distribution of gains and losses are not statistically stationary, and that adds in an additional level of complexity, by which I mean, your edge isnt a constant, it fluctuates (presumably due to market conditions). The edge on a roulette wheel is always going to converge to its theoretical value over a reasonable number of trials, the edge from a trading methodology doesnt play by the same rules. In simple terms, its like someone randomly coming along to your roulette wheel and adding or subtracting a few extra numbers ! At least with a roulette wheel you could see the physical change to the wheel and re asses your edge accordingly. With a financial market, you cant spot the change quite so easily.

Therefore, with trading you dont really understand how your expectancy might change in future. All you can do is monitor it, and ensure its falling within an expected range.

So even if the edge was positive and constant, you’d still be gambling (the random change of small rerurns v large returns) which is exactly why people diversify !. On top of that, you have no control over the stability of that edge, it may get better, or it may erode as additional market participants identify it. That is why trading is gambling

114

[B]Yes 100% forex trading IS gambling. It is not an argueable point, it simply is.[/B]

Anyone that does not understand or refuses to accept that does not understand the most basic concepts of trading.

Let me qualify my statement though.

When someone asks, “is trading gambling?” What they are usually refering to is the type of gambling where the gambler is NOT a professional gambler. That is they dont know money management and dont have an edge to play that puts odds in their favor.

The person asking the question is presuming that most gamblers lose no matter what and the winners are only lucky. They think of gambling only in terms of dumb luck ,the type of players who put a buck into a slot machine and hope.

The thing is there ARE professional gamblers who make a great living at it. They use ALL the same concepts traders do: money managment, risk managment, win/loss ratio, risk/reward ratio, developing an edge with probabilities in their favor, and knowing when to quit betting.

Trading IS speculation. Speculation IS gambling.

Any time you place a trade you are betting that a certain outcome will come to pass. You can never be 100% certain no matter what you know or what method you use. That is the very definition of gambling.

Just the same, if you bought a property hoping it would go up in value in a few years that is gambling, because you never know for sure if it will go up in value and if it does how much it will to even make it worth your while.

[B]It’s important to understand and accept this concept as a trader. Why? Because traders who don’t usually end up in a fruitless search for the holy grail that is always right and never loses them any trades.[/B]

There can be no gain without risk in life.

115

Alternatively they do understand, but have an adgenda to protect their business by spreading misinformation.

116

ok sir , i accept your point of view. i accept the way you like it.

but i beleive forex is not gambling.

you are free to keep your point of view and so am i.

so you go your way and i my own.

gud luck to you.

117

Or they are told that gambling is a sin and look for ways to justify doing it anyways…:wink:

118

one thing worth noting that even there are muslim brokers out there. as we know gambling is forbidden in islam so it is not gambling otherwise howcome muslim brokers exist. i think muslim brokers dont pay you interest.

you should ask muslim brokers if forex is gambling or not. they will provide you the right answer

119

So, when you put on a trade its a sure thing? When you put on a trade you are placing money on the line for a possible outcome that is NOT EVER CERTAIN. That is the very definition of gambling.

You are in denial and obviously hoping forex is a goldmine that if you just read enough books/study and learn some method you’ll get rich.

[B]Yes, there is skill involved for certain as well, but that doesn’t change the cold hard fact that ALL trading is gambling.[/B]

READ THIS CLOSELY: There is no holy grail or hidden secret. There are no books or methods that will have you trading with no risk and making big bucks. No amount of study will make forex trading NOT gambling.

So, learn concepts of professional gambling which are also core concepts of trading: risk managment, risk/reward ratio, win/loss ratio, ect…

If you can’t accept that trading forex is gambling it’s likely you can’t accept risk and losses, if this is the case then you should give up on trading because gambling, risk and loss are required to trade.

120

LOL, that is by far the stupidest thing I’ve ever read on this entire forum.

That’s like saying my wife doesn’t allow me to have a drink, so when I have drink it isn’t really alchohol. It can’t be because my wife doesn’t allow it.

Muslim brokers do it because it makes them big bucks.

And FYI, dont EVER trade with a muslim broker unless you want your account cheated out from under you.

I believe if you dig a little deeper you’ll find, I don’t know, a gazzillion examples from people of any religeon ignoring the rules of that religeon, or calling the sin something else, when the end result fattened their wallet.

P.S. Ok I get it now you are muslim and gambling is not allowed in your religeon, so you want someone to tell you trading forex isn’t gambling. Sorry, it is. And you shouldn’t be trading unless you can accept that.

121

i am serious you should ask any muslim scholar he will answer you. my friend take it seriusly its no joke. even christianity forbids gambling.why you call your profession a gambling. do you tell your girlf friend or family that you are a gambler and not a business man???

122

That scholar would be wrong if he said trading wasn’t gambling. And I wouldn’t ask him anyway because I don’t defer important questions to priests from made up religeons that are no more believeable than santa claus.

Trading is speculation, speculation is gambling. Read the posts above to see the definition of gambling.

And yes, both my wife and family understand that trading is gambling. You CAN gamble as a business. That is exactly what profitable traders are doing.

If you dont want to accept that, that is your problem.