Hi @tommor, and yet in the last decade, more elderly citizens were dying of the Flu than COVID has managed too take (most Countries) in the last 12 months, so I wouldn’t call it an outright success
Some of the vaccines were tested here in Victoria (Geelong) by the CSIRO. I have friends that worked on the project… Lets just say they aren’t lining up for a Jab anytime soon…
FYI, I’m not an antivaxxer and have spent a little over 5mins on Google researching this contagion.
That’s more research than I have done., But I have heard government scientists on TV and radio stating that the vaccine is safe to receive and will provide more protection than we currently have - which is a paper mask. So I’m in.
Any statistics on the number of those that were vaccinated against the flu? Also in an aging population as is the case in most countries, particularly first world taking pure numbers is not going to paint the whole picture.
I also have friends in pharmacology who have said that the sheer amount of resources that have been funneled into getting the vaccine ready is unprecidented. A lot of the medical research into the types of vaccines developed have been in the pipleline for years with less resources and funding so they have been tweaked to work for this disease. None of it was new from the ground up. The shee number of people tested in a short time owed to the number of people with the virus. When testing for something that they can only get a few hundred participants at a time it takes much longer.
I have no doubt we will need boosters or a jab incorporated into the normal flu jab each year as strains develop but that is going to be the new normal. As someone who is immunosuppressed and has a background in human physiology and biology I trust those with decades of medical knowledge and practice over Karen on Facebook and the odd medical professonal who might have disagreed. If the concensus was it isn’t ready then I would think again but that’s not the case.
The Governments and Medical advisors have no choice than to back Big Pharma… Otherwise they won’t be supplied the vaccines… simple as that…
@cashisking86, The question that I have for Big Pharma is why have they demanded legal indemnity from any injuries or fatalities from their Vaccines from every Government they have signed up with… WHY? DYOR…
Would you drive a car off the showroom floor that had no warranty on the Airbags, Seat Belts and ABS in the event of an accident… Think about it?
Million’s of people rely on decades of medical knowledge everyday.
Here’s a few drugs that killed and maimed Millions over the last fifty or so years…
If you want or need, in your case to take the vaccine, I have no issue what so ever.
I’m just pointing out researchable facts about these Vaccine rollouts… Something that the Media, Governments, Medical advisors and a few here are not keen on seeing the light of day.
There will be plenty of testing of this vaccine from researchers whose research will make no difference whatsoever to the supply of the vaccine but purely for medical research as holes in existing research are found. This is the case with all research, vaccine related or not and is just part of the scientific method. Over time we will surely see if the early concensus drawn by the larger corporations holds up to closer scrutiny. But that doesn’t help the situation now.
I do do my own research, in medical journals. Vaccine injuries (across all vaccines every created) are dwarfed by the sheer number of people they save. You will never get a 100% effective, 100% safe medicine of any kind. Paracetemol isn’t risk free. The chances of serious vaccine injury vs people prevented from ever catching covid is tiny.
The “researcher” who made the claim of vaccines causing autism ultimately was found wanting by researchers who picked apart the study and he was kicked out of medicine for falsifying results. Don’t think that these vaccines won’t face the same scrutiny.
It is a case of the vocal minority who pipe up and get their story reported and potentially wreck or hold back a programme that will save millions of people from getting this awful disease. Just as it did with smallpox, polio et al. The difference is there are no groups sitting there waiting for the airbags of a certain car to fail so they can get the entire car manufacturer shut down.
See @cashisking86, this is the overreaction that is being kicked around by the Media… Most (Like yours truly) don’t want the vaccine programmes wound down or stopped or whatever… We are just pointing out some of the facts that are being kept out of the discussion on the Vaccine Rollout…
Just be careful… Think about it… Is the message… Research it hard… Not shut it down…
Just like trading CFD’s… Just be careful… Think about it… Research it hard… Not don’t do it…
Nowhere in these forums do I tell anyone that they MUST do something… Nowhere… There is plenty of others in here that have that mindset… My reality should not become others reality…
Others reality does not become my reality…
No billions do and so even an extreme case of 1m people having an adverse reaction is going to be 0.014% when applied to this - a global pandemic. When the research is pointing us in the direction of the vaccine to try and stop this from going on longer than needed then those %s are favourable. Those who cling to the 0.014% stat are the reason it will persist longer than needed. Same with all vaccines for all preventable diseases.
A common argument used by antivaxxers. Not saying you are one as you say you aren’t and I will take your word for it, but nevertheless a common argument faced when pointing to large bodies of evidence: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Extremes
While these examples no doubt occurred, are we to dismiss the thousands or more medicines released into circulation that do their job spectacularly well?
But the issue is those that choose to reject medical concensus and then don’t get their information fact checked by actual professionals and use it as a reason to not get vaccinated creates a self fulfilling prophecy, since the success of any vaccine is based on large scale uptake. Failure to do so will lead to a failure of herd immunity and so the vaccine isn’t as widely successul as it could have been. This in turn is used as stick to beat it with.
@cashisking86, at the end of the day, we can revisit this thread in 6-12 months time and see just how successful (or unsuccessful) the vaccine programme has been.
Your belief is that it must be taken at all costs, be dammed the risk, my belief is that it’s been released without adequate testing, and care should be taken… simple as that.
As Cancer, Dementia and Cardiovascular issues have proven… throwing massive resources at a pharmacology problem is no guarantee that a solution can be found.
Edit: I’ve just had a look at the link you posted above “Appeal to Extremes”… Another desperate overreaction… So pointing out actual facts about this Vaccine Rollout is an Appeal to Extremes…
You are trying way to hard… Way to hard…
Of course and if subsequent research shows it to not be as effective as expected and the reasoning is down the vaccine itself and not uptake then I am happy to be concede that.
The testing has been on far greater numbers than you would expect for other vaccines. Circumstance has lead to this happening at a much smaller time frame. It is not a belief in be damned the risk just take it. But I have more trust in medical consensus of actual professionals across the world than a handful of people who aren’t on the internet.
I would disagree on the last statement too albeit for different reasons to the vaccine argument. Cancer is incredibly complex and calls for a “cure” are made by those who don’t understand cancers. Large strides have been made in all 3 areas you refer to though in the last few decades. In fact all 3 areas are incredibly complex simply down to causes and how best to prevent it occuring. A contagion is far simpler to control, by comparison at least.
Edit: The appeal to extremes was referring to an article about the 10 worst recalls in history rather than this specific vaccine rollout.
All the best.
Aye it’s a numbers game - like trading what are the probabilities.
For example I was prescribed statins 3 years back but decided on the balance of probabilities I could achieve the same result with some lifestyle changes - last check 5 weeks back confirmed I was correct thus far.
On covid it’s the same thing - what is the liklihood of my getting infected … hmmm quite high basically because I follow the rules but I’m still in contact with other humans and often have to breathe the same air.
So then what is the likelihood of serious illness if infected…hmmm
So today I held out my arm with delight - and I wish God speed to the many thousands of people who have helped create the anti-covid vaccines and to those who help get it into our arms 
In a situation in which I don’t have the technical expertise to verify the data, I depend on the qualified experts in the particular specialist field. which is why when I have had toothache I have gone to a dentist, not a bloke I met down the pub.
As far as vaccines are concerned, I can testify that all the conditions for which I have been vaccinated, I have not had. And all the conditions I have had, I was not vaccinated against.
Sister and close friend reported the same on the second shot. First was fine. Second, really sore arm for a day or two. Then back to normal. And NO extra eye balls or ears or teeth growing anywhere.
I rest my case… Even Governments, guided no doubt by Medical Consensus are questioning the effectiveness of the Vaccines in Europe!!
The average age of 900+ fatalities from COVID in Australia was 83… A very similar average across the 109,000+ deaths in the UK…
Understand, I don’t have a dog in this fight… Australia is virtually Virus free following massive lockdowns in the second half of 2020, we also have a far lower density of population, a driver of this pandemic than most Euro Cities…
Edit:
Something to think about…
As of February 7th, 10mil have completed their first dose of the Pfizer / Oxford / AstraZeneca Vaccine.
The Department for Health and Social Care (DHSC) was unable to specify (?) how many vaccines administered were Pfizer and how many were Oxford / AstraZeneca.
The UK Government aims to vaccinate the first four priority groups (80+, 70+, 60+, 50+) by Feb 15th.
If the first dosage of the vaccine achieves the claimed 76% effectiveness in stopping infection and 67% effectiveness in stopping the spread of infection… We can estimate that by Feb 21st the daily infection rate across the UK should start to decline dramatically.
The daily mortality rate should also begin to exponentially decline between Feb 15th and Feb 28th…
There will be a 4 -12 week interval until the prime-boost dosing (second dose) will be administered to the most venerable groups which MAY take efficacy to a claimed 82.4%
At least now we have some lines in the sand to indicate if the vaccines are the silver bullet required…
That is until Pharmaceutical or Government Spin Doctors continue to rewrite the scripts for their ongoing campaigns…
Hahaha, I should hope not!
Oh no worries! 
I got a bit confused but I just also wanted to answer your question. 
It’s great that there seems to be no sever side effects! 
That was one of my biggest worries since I’ve heard people say you could lose your eyesight or something. But I get that point with the 1 jab vs 2 jabs. Haha. I just hope the vaccine still somehow works even with just 1 jab.