I have to say this is so true. I don’t think james falls into this.
You may be right, but its interesting that whenever anyone says anything remotely negative about J16, on practically ANY trading forum, you’ll very quickly see new members signing up to that forum, and defending J16 with their very first post !
That really doesnt sound like someone who isnt really bothered. On the contary, that sounds like someone who takes the marketing of their service very seriously indeed.
I’m always happy to believe that the strangest things can occur due to random chance and coincidence, but even I find the frequency with which that particular phenomena occurs slightly suspicious.
Very interesting way to look at things indeed, and a convincing argument also.
However you are not considering this possibility…there are people browsing on the internet who have truly been benefited from the J16 material and therefore take the trouble to clarify questions or comments that they know first hand to not be true. Trading is boring and people do need something to do while waiting for trade setups to appear.
Imagine the cost one would incur to market the way you are suggesting where people would have to be deployed to keep a watch for negative posts and clarify things. The other hole in your argument is that if people are indeed deployed to look for negative posts, there will be no need to signup afresh as such deployed personnel will already have signed up to that forum.
Coming from a 1 post poster. I love it.
The type of “marketing” like that is done all the time. Why do you think this forum is so inundated with spam? It is relatively cheap and effective to have people hit all the major forums defending or promoting your product.
It is always odd that people take the time to sign up on a forum just to defend something that they PAY for, not that they receive money for. Yes, very odd indeed.
So we agree on the point that the promoter may not actively market his product but marketing may be the result of natural behavior of the people that consume the product.
Now we are getting into behavioral things…“People defend something they pay for”. Extending this line a bit further, people will write negatively about something that they paid for but could not get the expected value from that payment.
If I had an horrible experience with J16, and I saw someone posting lavish praises about J16, I would quickly sign up and give my opinion.
Wrapping up, I guess what I am trying to say is that these first time posts defending J16 are not necessarily a marketing ploy by J16 but a natural behavior of people who have had positive experiences.
Some. Maybe. All of them? No.
I know for a FACT that the tactic of hiring people to go defend a product is employed by companies. Is it being done for this company? I haven’t a clue. But when someone signs up to a forum to defend something and that is all, it throws alerts.
Unless that person has a massive case of buyer’s remorse, what is the point? It makes them money right? So how does defending it to detractors help in any way but make them feel better?
I just don’t see that happening a whole lot, especially not for places you have to gain an account to do so.
Agree with all of the above.
All I was trying to say is that there is another aspect to the behavior of the people that was not necessarily a conscious marketing effort by the promoter…
With regards to the J16 group itself…the only way one can find out if it is the real deal for someone is by going through the experience…the free one at FF and then the one at the paid group…there is no other way to find out…
one can make assumptions about the real deal v/s fake aspect based on the posts in various forums but think about this…if you didn’t go through the experience and you made an error in judgement about quality, it will be a HUGE loss to you. On the other hand if you went through the experience and you were wrong, you lose a little. Which option would you rather choose?
come down to the basic trading tenet isn’t it…risk small to give yourself a chance to win big.
It should be pointed out that its perfectly natural behaviour to defend something that you believe MIGHT have a positive influence in the future, without yet having gained that benefit.
I’ve seen people defending my previous business without those people having actually profited from their involvement in the business. They argued against perfectly rational critisism, and whilst it made no sense for them to do so, and despite the fact that the lacked the information to offer a legitimate opinion, they still defended us.
I think this partically comes from their own need to believe. Its a trait I see in sales people, and its common in many who are attracted to trading, gambling, affiliate sales, network marketing etc.
Its probably been 10 years since I participated in a chat room as a mug punter, but I lost count of the times that the people who run these things threatened to close down a room in response to critisism. I’ve seen situations where these guys make live calls day after day after day based on systems that they sold to subscribers. Someone critises, and points out they have a 60% drawdown, the guru threatens to walk away, and the group beg him to stay. Rinse and repeat until margin call !
They’ve invested time, money, emotions in their elected leader, walking away isnt easy. Its even harder when conventional wisdom advices disipline and sticking to your system.
I’ve even seen people in these groups marketing the guru’s services to others, despite their own less than satisfactory experience. Ive seen in first hand in numerous trading rooms and I’ve seen it in my own business, and at times, I’ve almost been drawn into this irrational type of behaviour myself.
Any lack of transparency helps to promote this sort of nonsense, and of course in this industry, its widespread.
Agree 100% Simba…This industry is full of crooks. That is a fact and I cannot change that. Now how do I deal with it. I am here to learn trading. I am not finding success at it. I am not looking for live trading signals, I am here to learn how to take trades myself and profit from them. I have been through a gazillion systems, paid lots of money, spent countless hours at this and still I am not successful. What do I do?
TO my mind two options -
- QUIT and find something else
- Continue the journey. Maybe get smarter but not start looking for shortcuts because by now I have realized that there are none in this business. Give educators the benefit of doubt. If things do not work, look for something else.
Most of the defence of the J16 group in this thread has come from established members. There are J16 traders all over this forum and many others.
This is interesting - are we allowed to know the story behind it?
For anything that costs more than a book, I don’t care to rely on random one-time opinions gathered on the internet. Call me cynical, but that is how I am.
And that is not a loss. If I spend a nothing, I lose nothing. I don’t consider missing potential profit to be a loss; that is a bad way to look at anything. Particularly trading.
ddinnov…I am one who hasn’t yet profited from J16 yet I have a very strong belief that it I can make it work for myself over a long term. The day I build my $1mill account, I will be able to say that yes, it works for me.
So you are looking for some guidance to become a successful trader and you don’t want to spend 2 full weeks of your time to go through something that just might be the missing link in your trading and if you like the look of that something, spend another $130 to see if you are getting extra something to enhance your trading thought process/behavior.
well…all I can say then is good luck…may you find what you are looking for…
I have found it. For free. On this forum.
I never said I would not pay to learn something. In fact, for my method of trading stock options, I bought a book. Worth the entire 30 dollars I paid for it. In fact, I subscribe to a list now that narrow down my stock choices via the system.
BUT that with with numerous recommendations by reputable people and a wealth of free information.
Once again, I have no idea what this James16 thing is about. Nor do I care really. If it works for people, great. I am wholly speaking in general terms. And generally, I am unlikely to pay very much for information I can probably find for free.
Hey…if you already have what it takes to be consistent in this business…awesome…All my arguments were meant for those that might be still seeking/searching…
Good Luck!!
Wow we really are beating this dead dog to death aren’t we???
I think J16 is awesome. I personally know his instruction has made me a better trader.
He has never scammed money from me
I found his Private forum to be extremly valuable and in fact I only belonged for 2 months. In that time I copied all the videos and materials and studied them. This is a valid point also. If James was gunning for peoples money then why does he make 100% of the material available right away. In fact he aknowleges that some may join for 1 month and copy everything. So anyone saying it cost $1300 are only distorting facts for shock value.
Finally I would point out again for the umteenth time that all his “teachings” are available for free.
Real value. Real honesty. Real integrity. Real good material.
BTW I would prefer anominity too considering how many nutbags are out there. It only takes one who has a percieved grudge or something to do something horrible to him or his family so hell yea I would keep my real name out of it.
He is selling more than just his videos and manuals he is selling a private forum, webinars, and other ongoing services… So to take advantage over time of all he offers, it will cost you over $1,200.
Anyway here is a person selling something that is supposed to teach them how to trade, yet he does not want his name associated to it, nor does he prove it works prior to payment (showing trading statements). He takes it one step further by registering his domain name via a proxy so those that are interesting in checking him out can’t.
James16 may be the best man or woman in the world, and the best teacher when it comes to trading, I don’t know… What I do know is that his actions / sales tactics are ones commonly used by scammers. Until he or she becomes more transparent he or she will be seen by many as some one employing scammer techniques.
I will tend to agree with JohnnyKanoo - - there is NOTHING sneaky, NOTHING irresponsible about James16, I belonged for 3 months- He and his cohorts are upfront and honest about it all - - - even so much as stating that some/a lot of information contained within the private forum is public knowlegde and can be had for free. but what does that cost you - a month, a year , 5 years of study? is that worth a hundred something a month.
That is for you to decide. I will personally give them a nod - if you know what you are looking for and know what you want, I feel you will figure it out within a month, if what they are offering is what you want.
He is not asking you to join my friend. yes…you don’t know a lot of things but you are implying that you know a lot. You are not willing to listen to people that have had first hand experience but are going to form an opinion based on certain actions that can be perceived in multiple ways.
I don’t know why I am getting so passionate about J16…I guess it is coz I know it is the real deal but people are just not willing to listen and give it a chance.
Anyways why do I care. To each his own. Peace to all.
What have I implied I know? I know I can’t find out the things I want to find out because he registered his domains via proxy, and stays anonymous.
He has mixed reviews on reviewpips from people with first hand experience.
I also know you only have 8 posts and every one of them is in this thread, so I know you are only a member of BabyPips in an effort to promote how good james is. You are not an active community member here, for all I know you are James16 defending himself…
So I am supposed to believe you and other anonymous internet posters about an anonymous teacher? Why all the cloak and dagger stuff? Why not just come out in the open JAMES16?
Also please point out in my quoted comment is untrue?