Well put yourself in my shoes. I don’t know what you do for work but imagine that you found a forum where there was a bunch of people doing your job… for free. You also notice that many of them aren’t even doing your job properly, but one day hope that they will be able to do it… and get paid! I’m sure the image in your mind is pretty ridiculous by now, but that’s the madness that I walked into.
I’m well aware of the 90-95% failure rate that this business induces, and I didn’t come here to change the dynamics of that statistic, but rather to accelerate those 5-10% to their successful destiny! I was warned and am prepared to take lots of flak from the 90% who really have no future in this business, but will still aggressively defend their lackluster and misguided efforts
Ok, but really now, before you started rubbing people up the wrong way, what was your plan to try and help the 5-10%?
You seem very confident in everything you’re saying so I’m interested to see where you’re going with this? Is it just getting people to talk about their losses?
I can see why people think Mr CarPainter might be a bit condescending. I also think condescending is probably not the right word. I read a genuine ask for some honesty about trades, and a bunch of responses by people who rather quickly assumed they would get laughed at.
I am a retail trader. I don’t work. I trade full time.
Trading is like fishing. Everybody has a big fish story, but hardly anyone who fishes wants to admit they get skunked once in a while. It’s not just the forex world that is rife with scams, it’s ANYTHING that takes any sort of ability that someone can come up with a way to package and sell the “keys to the universe” of. There’s an awful lot of desperate people out there looking for an easier way to make a buck. And an awful lot of people who paint out forex as an “easy buck” providing you follow their system.
Barnum was right. There’s a sucker born every minute.
Now, off my stump.
My name is Jay. I lost a trade. Looking back, I don’t even know why I entered it. I didn’t lose a lot, I lost $0.50. BUT… I paid $30 in spread, and $5.72 in swap. The trade was short on the A/U.
It’s not the losing, it’s the fact that I entered a trade that didn’t follow my usual trade criteria. I got out with a small loss. Had I been stubborn and stayed in longer, it ran away long, and would have hit my 50 pip stop. That would have been expensive. So… Bad thing: I entered a trade not following my rules. Good thing: I got out before it got out of hand.
Lesson learned (for the fourteen thousand three hundred and seventy second time), move on.
Okay, I think most if not everyone here can agree that the technical framework is not all that difficult to learn (maybe 3-6 months of committed studying). So then what is the difference between the 10% and the 90%?
It’s the Discipline to follow through with their risk control measures!
I’ve come to believe that the main reason new traders find it difficult to remain disciplined, is actually their FEAR of losing. It’s counter-intuitive but it is actually human nature to actually manifest our fears into reality! I figured by helping people overcome their fear of loss, that they would more easily attain that key trait of discipline much quicker than their peers… who hide in the shadows when they are presented with losses
Does anyone else see my logic? I assure you folks, I’m not the bad guy here
Trading itself is counter-intuitive. The best opportunities for buys come when price looks like it’s going through the floor. And the best opportunities for sells come when price is headed to the moon. And a closer look at hope and fear is opposite of what actually goes on in a new trader’s mind when they are in a losing, or even winning trade. If they are losing, they HOPE price comes back, so they let it run away on them. I know I did that. And when they are winning, they FEAR losing the amount they already gained, so they chop a trade off at the knees. The result is an inverse expectancy.
There was a study out there somewhere I heard about that studied taxi drivers. On nights they had great fares, and made some money, they would inevitably leave work before their whole shift was done. On nights they were not getting fares, and it was rough, they would stay out there hoping for it to turn around. Sound familiar?
Thank-you for sharing your loss and supporting this thread! You are right… nobody will be laughed at. To assume you will be laughed just shows your true feelings towards loss… shame and humility!
It is the people that perpetuate this myth that everyone is winning all the time that are in fact creating this attitude of shame and humility in regards to losing. Breaking your risk control rules is BAD. Getting your analysis wrong, but keeping risk in check is NORMAL.
Let’s look at the other thread you frequent, “The Forex Portfolio”, as a case study. Given the extreme moves in past weeks on the Yen pairs, and given the “hold until it hurts” nature of the Portfolio methodology, I am 100% sure there are multiple traders sitting on RIDICULOUS losses. But where is their voice on that thread? MUTE
If there are traders stubbornly holding onto big losses, then that’s their misunderstanding of the method, it’s not supposed to be the nature of it…letting losers go has been stressed. However, there are posts from those that have had losses due to the yen…how much didn’t you read…and is that the only thread you’ve read?
During those extreme moves on the Yen pairs, I had about 15 trades that went into a combined loss of around 1600 pips, but because my position sizes on them was so low, it could weather the storm. I held onto them not because I didn’t want to lose, but because price hadn’t showed me I should yet…it just showed me either I entered in the wrong place or an unforseen event disrupted a perfectly good entry …which happens. I did cut some losses…didn’t like it, but price hit my stops where it broke a HH or LL in the opposite direction, and that was that. The rest of the trades resumed the direction my analysis suggested.
Myfxbook is linked on the first post of my trade journal thread if anyone feels I’m not being honest about anything.
But no, I am referring to people who are SHORT Yen pairs, and sitting on(or have taken) huge losses. It’s not bad that they lost, but the point is that by being mute, it gives a positively biased representation of the method. These recent events should have highlighted to many the dangers, but of course those people are silent, and only the “winners” emerge.
And it all makes sense when you realize it’s a lot more to do with Ego than actual “sharing of results”
For you specifically Sweet Pip, my critique of you would not be that you are hiding your losses. It would be that you appear to have been trading since 2007 (given your join date coincides with the start of your trading endeavour) and yet you are STILL fooling around on a Demo account. At our firm, we start to get cold feet on a potential hire if they aren’t showing tangible results in the first 6 months, so your 6 years would really be pushing it lol
And therein lies one of the major problems & negatives of these places.
Unless you’re incredibly disciplined with your time & your common sense radar is well tuned you’re going to become distracted by all the hot air constantly swirling around this place resulting in a damaging loss of focus.
It’s not the scamming of money that kills most novices, it’s the scamming of their time.
2 of you have already identified this guy’s framework has been here more or less in its mirror format since 2007, yet that thread has gone virtually unnoticed in the most part since those guys vacated the place.
3 of the novices who contributed to that thread muscled their way into a position where they are now earning a very impressive income trading other folks money for a living. That’s a very positive example of maintaining discipline & focus whilst tuning out the distractive elements commonplace in these public forums.
You don’t see any of those guys still wandering around here asking questions on other threads do you?
It proves that if you’re able to quickly recognize, identify & process logical, common sense information & use your initiative to advance those attributes, you can side step all the spin merchants & overly complex nonsense peddled around these forums on a constant loop & save yourself a lot of disappointment & valuable time.
But as with the incredibly low success percentages regularly bandied around the industry, only a select group of very committed, disciplined individuals will make it through the bindweed.
It also puts a different spin on the whole “we’re here because we aren’t privileged like you are” narrative
I was lucky enough to get in the door via referral, but it sure isn’t the only way to get yourself into a professional position. A track record of consistent gains and rock solid discipline is hard to ignore for some of these headhunters
The guy is right. As hard as it is to hear. Home of Golf and I have talked about it before. We don’t succeed because we treat it like a hobby. I’ve known it for a long time. Nike has the best slogan in the world. Just do it. You can talk or think about something as much as you want but if you don’t put in the time and effort and work you won’t get results. Some people put their family first. I put world of Warcraft before trading lol. I’d like to agree with sweet pip. Maybe it’ll just take longer. Or maybe we ll just be chasing our tails. Honestly you and akeakamai surprised me. 5 years and no results? Even part time. Edges aren’t hard to find. Meihua has shed some light on that. What’s hard is the consistency.
Hmmm ill add a bit more.
What’s hard is consistency, risk management, and trade management. I’m speaking for myself but usually I assume most humans are alike. I can spot good set ups and I can accurately call direction. What I’m not good at is taking profits or closing out. Or knowing where to put my SL.
Got to agree with that. It’s just a symptom of the human condition that people often find a blunt truth tough to hear. OP might not be going out of his way to soften any blunt edges, but that doesn’t mean that he is wrong! Playing at trading is, in my view, the principal reason why most retail traders never seem to make the leap to genuinely effective trading on any meaningful scale. I spend more time watching Eric Thomas than worrying about which broker to use, or any one of a number of other common questions posed around here.
As for accusations of a high and mighty, condescending attitude - we have seen far worse around here from people who still proved enormously popular - ICT springs to mind, but he’s not alone - so I think it would be unfair if we as a community suddenly start using that as a reason not to listen.
So in keeping with the theme of the thread, thought id post my thoughts on it…
Im no expert in the field, been trading just over a year now - 7 months demo, and about 7 months live now too.
Without specific detail to exact trades (believe me, there were a lot!), 2013 has been pretty rough for me so far. In the first two months i seemed to do nothing but be on the wrong side of the market. That said, live account is down roughly around -10% - dont know if this is looked at as a lot or a little but i dont see it as half as bad if you’ve seen the sheer number of losses ive taken. Risk is down to 0.5% each trade and i plan to keep it that low until i can work myself out of draw down.
The reason for my “life story” above, is really not to highlight any recent loss, in fact with all the losses ive had recently i actually feel numbed to the pain of a loss, and really have no reaction to them anymore. I think the new battle i face [I]is the fear[/I] of taking a loss. I actually had a good trade this week, and closed out in some profit, but now im slightly more hesitant to open a new position in fear that i will erase my winnings. I guess all in all, my fear is not so much about losing, its about losing the measly gains I’ve earned back…
Anyway, thought id share…
Im Sanj, Im 22, and im a Forex loser :34:
Thank-you for sharing your story. So much talk of “fear” in your post. Fear is a pointless emotion to mix into your trading.
I get the impression many traders here know that they should have a trading plan, but perhaps not many know why. The reason you take the time to develop and perfect your consistent approach is so that you don’t have anything left to fear!
You aren’t trying to make money. You aren’t trying to be right. You aren’t trying not to be wrong. You aren’t TRYING anything! You are doing, You are doing what you planned to do, because the plan will make you money.
So many people on this forum are TRYING not to be losers. Just BE a winner. It’s a mindset shift that you all could carry out in a few seconds, if you could just get past the assumption that your default state is “Loser”
