MEP ELECTIONS - BREXIT Party - Competent people who know how to do a deal

Didn’t know that - Presumably you are smearing her with these people ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Order#/media/File:Memoriallodge.jpg

What precisely is that particular “Guilt by Association” smear supposed to convey ?

Not sure who has smeared whom. Perhaps the MP for Vauxhall was representing the good people from her constituency, perhaps representing herself.

I don’t understand how a simple photo promoted by Kate can smear her.

The photo in question was taken in 2014 and was meant to show solidarity with the continuance of:

"…

A young Catholic woman out for a Sunday evening jog said she was relieved that a resolution to the dispute had been reached.

Nodding towards the camp across the road she said: "It shouldn’t have been allowed to go on this long. I was fed up looking at that protest. I’m not bothered about the march on Saturday morning. I’ll be in my bed and won’t hear a thing. Anyone who doesn’t want them to walk should just stay in their beds until its over. It’ll be over in five minutes."

News of the breakthrough in the dispute was warmly welcomed by politicians and police.

First Minister and DUP leader Arlene Foster said the agreement was “a welcome development” and “a significant step”.

While there has been a lot of will among both communities to resolve this parading issue there is still some way to go to eradicate the inbred mistrust and the “them and us” mentality.

"I don’t see why them ones have a problem. It’s a public road and it (the parade) would be past them in a couple of minutes. We wouldn’t have had all this trouble if the parade hadn’t been stopped in the first place," said a Twaddell resident…"

Again - I’m not quite sure what you are trying to say here if it’s not intended as a smear ? :sunglasses:

But ok = I’m now educated that she is in favour of people beng able to walk down a public road :wink:

Here’s a rather good rally from “Leave means Leave” in December 2018 so close enough to address many of the same issues - Some great speakers and Sammy Wilson MP gives a quick critique of the “Deal” at about minute 40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9obfaO-pJI

The above two quotes are exactly what I’m trying to say.

Anyone who promotes the ‘them and us’ and there are many of us (myself included) who do so either through our words or actions are guilty.

The ‘them and us’ mentality often leads to conflict, division and even violence.

Leavers vs Remainer, Irish vs British, Male vs Female, Right vs Left, Socialist vs Capitalist - and so the list goes on - that is the smear and it’s a smear on each and every one of us.

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Interesting @peterma

You forgot to mention the “Elephant in the room” re your photo and that newspaper article -

ie the Catholic / Protestant battle

Now we know that the human animal is tribal - so “Us and Them” are Hard wired into our psyche

So what do you think is our salvation ?

If somehow we can think outside the adjectives.

Stephen K Amos and some other celebs met the Pope recently (Road to Rome BBC2).

At the meeting Amos told Pope Francis: “I lost my mother, three months ago I buried my twin sister, who were both very religious. So me coming on this pilgrimage, being non-religious, I was looking for answers and faith. But as a gay man, I don’t feel accepted.”

(Amos only agreed to the meeting if he was allowed to speak freely)

Pope Francis smiled and answered via an interpreter:

“Giving more importance to the adjective than the noun. That is not good. We are all human beings and have dignity. It does not matter who you are or how you live your life, you do not lose your dignity. There are people that prefer to select or discard people, because of the adjective. These people don’t have a human heart.”

Is it possible for us to lose the hard wiring?

I suppose the best we can do is keep trying and hoping.

Yes I looked that up

https://inews.co.uk/culture/television/pilgrimage-road-to-rome-pope-meeting-lgbt-gay-rights-stephen-k-amos-bbc-what-time-date-final/

His answer was very wise
Perhaps partly owing to his age and his familiarity with Hitler and Stalin / Mao philosophies :sunglasses:

His answer is similar to the reference Ben Shapiro makes about “Social Justice” - ie “Justice doesn’t need any qualifier”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFjmUzAKqts

I find his comparison of the two principles of “The rights of man” between USA and French Revolution really quite telling.

Peterson follows the line further and says that what we have is not great - but it’s the best we can do - there ISN’T anything better !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xss0vC3mRfE

He says “In the West we have a principle that The State is regulated by the Principles of the individual”

That is what we are losing due to the excesses of the EU.

He is an advocate of taking personal responsibility for your own self as a starting point towards " a fuller life "

Listen to him explain how the jounalists are censoring themselves, Politicians are censoring themselves because of the bullying tactics employed on the Internet. "Conservatives won’t even come out and admit to being conservative "

I think a good many of us have seen the intentions behind the EU and that is why we are insisting that Brexit is done properly. Some say that the UN have a similar Agenda of “Control from the centre” - and some call it “Agenda 21”

Neither are we alone - this is happening throughout Europe and many in the US see Donald Trump as a salvation from this Control from the centre.

I don’t think it would be Peterson argues in his book that “we live in hierarchies and have done so for at least 300 million years as demostrated by the fact that Lobsters do so as well by exactly the same mechanisms and it was 300 million years since we diverged from lobsters on an evolutionary scale”

  • but I would also ask

“Do we have the right to insist that OTHERS be changed ?”

I think we have to be vigilant and argue against “Social Justice” demands vehemently - as Peterson says - “Be brave” - debate them - show them up for what they are.

He says elsewhere that it is easy to spot excess on the Right - because it speaks of Racial Superiority - but HARD to define excess on the Left because it is hard to see where the line should be drawn.

His arbitrary but seemingly reasonable positon is that the line should be drawn when people start demanding “Equality of Outcome” !

And that claims of “Gender inequlity due to male patriarchy”, Racial disadvantages due to prejudice etc are excessive draws towards demands of “equality of outcome” - Equality of opportunity is great “equality of outcome” cannot be achieved by Just means - only bby excessive and brutal central control

If you would like to see all seven of the set of Dr Jordan Peterson’s related videos about what is going on all around us, starting with # 1 Where he exposes the Morphing of Marxism into the “Postmodernist Agenda” which is infesting our society with it’s dreadful divisive insistence on “Group agenda politics”

The whole lot can be viewed here in under one hour - Highly recommended !

Note what he says

"When I first started complaining about C16, people’s first reaction was that I was slightly nutty person with an agenda - THAT was teh RIGHT reaction when people have been living somewhere “safe” and nothing ever goes radically wrong - people just tend to relax and fall asleep without really noticing what is going on around them ! "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkNzYttjSHE&list=PLFZ9Q6hV6p6GeT_JL_KMukNENPJ8tlk0v&index=1

Look at these Candidates - Diversity, experience, Integrity, determination to “JFDI”

Love the lad who said he sound a transfer from Politics to Oily fish “Quite straightforward”, Love the Ex-marine who said he had been watching elections in 3rd world countries for corruption - "Never thought I’d be objecting to it here in the UK !

Love the FACT that the Conservative Councillors have Farage a single point behind Boris in their preference for Next Conservative Party Leader and in Second place !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9b9jzlIkiM

Aye, something I’ve given thought to over this past few years.

My own analysis is that we are not actually hard wired into hierarchy, rather we create the us and them - we could blame society but we are society.

There are two times in our lives that human hierarchy does not exist - first time is when we are new-borns just after coming in through the entrance - and second time is when we are facing the exit.

In Belfast’s RVH there are 6 patient wards - 3 facing 3.

One of those wards is devoted to surgical lung care, mostly cancer. A young catholic man in his mid 50’s had undergone an operation and was wheeled out back to the ward with many wires and pipes attached.

He looked across the ward to an older man opposite whom he knew to be a protestant minister. He could see shock and fear in the eyes of the minister and then he quickly realized:

“It’s not as bad as it looks” he called over, “I feel absolutely fine, there is nothing to fear”.

Relief swept over the minister and he smiled back. Later his wife came over to thank the younger man “you have helped my husband immensely” she said quietly.

In that ward there was no protestant or catholic, just two people.

Now I’m getting an alert “Let others join the conversation” so maybe the software writers are right, anyways @Falstaff many thanks for the thought provocation.

On the Brexit front I sincerely hope all goes well, my favourite saint is Joseph mainly because he says little and works hard :slight_smile:

Peterson Proves his statement on hierarchy in the second half of that video your friend thought was boring. I mention this to save you further contemplation of the matter.

However - the “Us and Them” is not what I understand by “Hierarchy” so perhaps we speak of different things.

Some US’s and them’s we choose, some we just ARE and some we are thrust into by the current wave of reprehensible “Group identity politicians”, who are entirely devoid of individuality identifiers and view one as smply a “Member of a group” - either “Oppressors” (Me) or “Victims” (Any number of ‘other’ :roll_eyes: )

But to say we “Choose” is imo far too simple.

No I’m afraid that “Tribality” is built in and hard wired into All primates and simply not capable of change without the dreadful murder regimes of Stalin and Mau - 100’s of millions of dead bodies and the philosophy which said we are “Just one murder away from Utopia” - EVERY Communist Regime has ended thus AFAIK ! Please whomsoever, feel free to point out a single successful version ?

And afterwards - the true nature of the human animal emerged anyways ! in whatever form of Capitalism ensued.

What we have is very bad and very vulnerable to criticism - BUT there is NO better ! :wink:

Personally I think All forms of Religion should be entirely forbidden, but of course if we do that we will replace them with “Quasi Religions” like this “Group id rubbish” - why Universities and schools have to have these Faith identities, instead of just teaching Critical thinking and responsibility - I have no idea.

Thank you @peterma . Sadly it cannot go “Well” now - just damage limitaion but we can make sure the career politicians regret their actions and learn that They are there to serve the people - not to dictate to them.

Sku news recognise what is going on - They don’t like it but at least they recognise it !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcvVmEs86os

Oh My G**

They’ve only got that shrinking violet Ann Widdecombe

PArt 1
Part 2

You can hear the “Remoan bias” of the mainstream media in the questions and comments.

There are many who say that Mr Corbyn was “Tony Benn’s bag carrier”

Here’s a short speech regarding the EU from the great man himself in 2016 - listen to what he says about who owns “the Power”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWnpbEMMsNw

" I made a youthful indescretion - I BELIEVED the Prime Minister !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YIHmLYyQXk

Ann Widdecombe sounding Very sharp on sky News.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEyRo3OGESc

You have to love the Wall Street Journal’s take on May - foolish woman.

Wall Street Journal

Something needs to get us out!

Just make sure you vote Brexit at the MEP Elections :smiley:

Here’s an interesting commentary yesterday on The Labour position on the “Exit” by their SW MEP Candidate. “Lord Adonis” advising "If you want ""BRexit - don’t vote Labour! " Then of course he backtracks a bit. But the most interesting part is the last 4 minutes or so (From Minute 7) about what Michel Barnier told the Telegraph about a conversation he had with Mr Farage and his expectation that there will be a Nigel Farage in every country of Europe and his fear that Nigel Farage will destroy the EU -

For anyone who has looked at the performance of individual countries within the EU especially those who actually adopted the Euro as their currency, the devastation caused to their individual economies has been pretty disastrous - I am sincerely fearful that we shall join the likes of Greece and Italy and Cyprus and Eire locked into an ever tightening cycle of over-taxed austeriy - Permanently - unless we just get the hell away from them.

At the moment Interest Rates are at a Historical minimum and those countries are managing to meet their payments - just about. But what when they return to normal ?

Really I would just say “Get out - At any cost”