My Hedged Healing Circle (Positive Swap)

Hi guys - gals,

Long time lurker first time poster. I’ve recently been playing around with a few ideas (and a few demo accounts) on how to get a positive carry while maintaining some sort of hedge, and while I’m in the early stages I have been somewhat successful so i thought I would share with you guys a few of my ideas to get some feedback about what you think before I dive in with real money. These trades are simple AF, but I don’t think they’re backtestable (maybe they are? I always test with demo accounts rather than backtesting).

So the idea is simple - match up pairs that are as hedged as possible but also carry a positive swap overall. Here are a few of my ideas. One thing to note - the number I put next to each currency pair is NOT A LOT SIZE. It is a RATIO vs the other trades, using properly aligned margin requirements (in deposit currency) for each currency pair. To figure out the correct lot size, I use cTrader as it has a handy feature where by you can size your positions easily by checking the “margin requirement” field as you size your trades. Basic example: I want to go simultaneously long USD and short gold, and want to bet $50 each way. So I start adjusting the values of my lot sizes in each currency until they both say “margin required: $50”, then I hit “buy USDJPY” and “sell XAUUSD” one after the other. Simple right? So with that in mind, please check some of my more promising matched pairs:

First one I chose because it is a simple mashup of all the FX Majors, hedging them both ways, as well as hedging both the Yen and the Swiss Franc as the “safe havens”. My first hedge only used JPY as the short and it exposed a major flaw - you are simply long USD and short JPY overall. after I tweaked it to use both CHF and JPY the results are a lot more positive. Drawdown was less and equity actually ended up overall positive fairly quickly. The swap is also positive on 11 out of the 12 pairs:

SYMBOL-DIR-RATIO
AUDUSD-SELL-1
AUDCHF-BUY-0.5
AUDJPY-BUY-0.5
EURUSD-SELL-1
EURJPY-BUY-0.5
EURCHF-BUY-0.5
USDCAD-BUY-1
CADJPY-BUY-0.5
CADCHF-BUY-0.5
GBPUSD-SELL-1
GBPCHF-BUY-0.5
GBPJPY-BUY-0.5

With this you are fairly well spread out amongst all the currency pairs, and half hedged (but also half exposed) against-to an event like a CHF-JPY flash crash, but the other positions should protect you from too much drawdown in that event. So far I’ve not had my drawdown come to even 50% of the sum of all the trades, and right now as of this post the demo account I am using is up $4750 in equity in 12 hours with $4,000 per USD pair, and $2000 per JPY-CHF pair (total $32000 margin). Of course these numbers can be upscaled or downscaled, but the overall swap for this particular setup is +AUD$450 per day at the time of writing. Another thing I’m trying to decide is whether or not to sell the entire ring every time theres a good profit and open new positions, or just let it run so the positive carry will build up a buffer against a potential unforseen disaster…

A few other ideas I am toying with showing early signs of success are below:

XAUUSD-SELL-1
XAUEUR-BUY-1

Essentially you are both long and short gold, but the positive carry of shorting USD gold far outweighs the negative carry of buying EUR gold, and the pairs generally tend to be positively correlated, thus cancelling each other out (added bonus that when USD falls gold GENERALLY rises too). Best time to place this trade is after a big fall in XAUEUR, especially if it has decoupled from XAUUSD. Max sizing should be no more than 5% of overall account per position as drawdown can approach 100% of the margin used. Another variation of this which results in positive carry, but has less of a correlation (more risk, potentially faster rewards) is below:

USDJPY-BUY-1
XAUEUR-BUY-1

An interesting oddity with my Forex broker occurs with the EURJPY pair. Currently the long swap is -0.13 pips and short is -0.02 (Even though EUR interest rate is higher than JPY). EURCHF has a long swap of 0.09. Possible semi-arbitrage opportunity, with overall positive swap and holding positions open until you get positive equity. Although you are technically short CHF and long JPY with this trade, you are somewhat protected from a major drawdown by the EUR hedge:

EURCHF-BUY-1
EURJPY-SELL-1

FX Major Ring:

EURUSD-SELL-1
GBPUSD-SELL-1
USDJPY-SELL-1
AUDUSD-SELL-1
USDCHF-BUY-1
USDCAD-BUY-1

These swaps are all positive, except for USDJPY obviously. The reason I shorted this was to hedge against a major USD meltdown in some way. The negative carry of shorting the USD is approximately 50% of the positive carry of the other positions. Max drawdown so far seems to be 150-200% of the total margin used, swinging to positive equity of about +50% of total margin used

FX Minor Ring:

AUDCAD-BUY-1
AUD-CHF-BUY-1
AUDNZD-SELL-1
AUDSGD-BUY-1
EURAUD-SELL-1
EURCHF-SELL-1
EURGBP-SELL-1
GBPAUD-SELL-1
GBPCHF-SELL-1
NZDUSD-SELL-1

This ring is basically a full positive carry swap, except for AUDNZD which seems to be negative long and short for my FX broker. This ring is heavily long AUD and heavily short EUR. I had an idea to change EURAUD to BUY which will result in a slight penalty in the swap, but better balances the AUD-EUR biases. I’ve not seen this one go into negative equity yet as the AUD has been strong, so I can’t comment on equity drawdown unfortunately.

Interestingly, when putting the FX Major Ring and FX Minor ring together, so far they have cancelled each other out in terms of equity (or close enough to it) while maintaining an over all positive carry.

I plan to leave these positions open for a month or two on my demo to see how the swap stacks up and whether or not the drawdown ever comes close to margin call.

One thing to keep in mind is to keep an eye on interest rates, as that could affect the position you should take in the Major and Minor rings.

Final reminder: the numbers above are NOT lot sizes. They are ratios of MARGIN REQUIREMENTS in your base currency as explained up top! You need to figure out the lot sizes using your own base currency

Let me know what you think, or whether you have ideas for improvement on my healing circle :slight_smile:

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Here is an example of the first hedge in play after 3 days on a demo account (Swap is massive due to it falling over a Wednesday):

Next step is to see whether it is more profitable to keep collecting swaps, or just close all positions and start again when your over all equity has a nice positive balance to it, or just keep doubling the positions when equity doubles…

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This ain’t hedging, you are simply buying the dollar.

Brokers ain’t stupid, they must have calculated with the most sophisticated softwares in the planet to come up with a way that you can NEVER make money from swap fees while in a hedge position. NEVER

In fact, even if you have. You posting it here is like reporting yourself to the authorities, and they will make sure the glitch, if there is one is corrected.

You are right, you are buying the dollar in 5 out of the 6 trades. That example I gave out of all of them is one of my experimental trades. The idea isn’t to stay “perfectly” hedged but to stay hedged enough that drawdown stays within a certain range for long enough for all the positive swaps to catch up and end up in positive territory. FYI here’s a screenshot of my demo account running that particular combo after 4 days, which includes the US dollar being strong, and after a slight correction against all major currencies:

The furthest I’ve seen this account go into negative equity is about $1200 DD so far, or about 100% of the margin commited to this trade (on a $50k account)

So what happens when the USD becomes weak and stays weak for a week. Sweet rhyme :grinning:

Theres a slight hedge against that by selling the USD against the Yen… but you are right if the USD fell against every other currency, and every other currency rose against the dollar but fell against the Yen, then you would be in trouble. The strongest setup I have though would be the one at the beginning of the post. That one can survive such a scenario because you have the other currencies bought against the Yen and the Swiss Franc to counter-act the dollar falling. Not perfectly but enough that equity drawdown is minimum. I’ll show you an example of what it looks like when the USD is weak:

As you can see there is a little drawdown - 24 bucks out of 489 committed margin. You can also see that its the reverse of the other one I posted - where the USD pairs are all in red but the CHF / JPY pairs are all in green.

One catastrophic scenario, whilst rare is still possible I suppose, would be the USD tanking against both the Yen and CHF, with GBP, EUR, AUD, and CAD all tanking against both the USD and the CHF / JPY pair. That would require all the stars in alignment and would not stay that way for very long (if at all) so while not perfect, its a fairly “safe” hedge I think. Generally though when the Yen rallies (or a Yen flash crash) it rallies against every other currency, Swiss Franc included, which would be hopefully mostly mitigated by all the other currency pairs staying somewhat even.

I’ll give a try on demo when market reopens. There’s little logic behind this last one you posted.

My broker’s swap for AUDUSD long and short is negative. But will still try though.

Your brokers swap is negative both ways for AUDUSD? Hmm thats a tricky one… Give it a go and see what you think… You could always leave the 3 AUD pairs out of it… Although as you can see my brokers swap for EURJPY is negative but I still left it in as the swap on EURUSD and EURCHF makes up for it…

Another thing to try is to close all positions out when the net gain becomes, say, 30% of the margin used, and then place all the positions again. Right now though I’m going to leave all positions open for a month on the 200k account and see what the swap looks like at the end of it…

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For those that are still following along, here is my $32k margin hedged healing circle (demo unfortunately) one week on :slight_smile:

Your system brooo Amazing.
Now im reduce the margin to 10% of balance.
Before i use 50% margin from balance

Hi mate, glad the system is working for you :slight_smile:

Yes it is definitely safer to use only 10% of margin, although I think up to 20% is safe. Try that on a demo for a month before committing though…

In case you were curious, heres mine that is still running. Note that on the 5th of April I doubled all open positions when profit exceeded 200% of margin used. Although in hindsight it is probably better to only attempt this during a dip rather than a peak, as theres a good chance that a reversal can take you back to zero or negative Unr net:

Note how there is over $8k in positive swap already, which helps buffer any temporary slowdown. The longer you leave it, the more this swap buffer builds

i try to open once a day. no matter the order previous is done or not.
because i use 5% margin of balance and close off all when reach 0.5% on each day.

so if have 2 day trade i close when reach 1%

i think if this work, 10% a month was very nice :smiley:

Hey man that’s awesome news! I’m glad its working out for you :slight_smile:

let see when this month is end.
and how much im get or how much im lose :smiley: :smiley:

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Haha I hope you make a lot.

I have another demo circle running with the XXXUSD pairs omitted - so basically all other currencies both long CHF and long JPY. This is what it looks like so far:

Which has made me think of a new idea. Basically this circle minimises the damage of the USD taking a huge dump, but can expose you if more than one other currency suddenly dives against both JPY and CHF. My second idea is to reduce your exposure to the USD whilst keeping a hedge against any particular currency downturn by considering the following ratios:

AUDUSD-SELL-1
AUDCHF-BUY-1
AUDJPY-BUY-1
EURUSD-SELL-1
EURJPY-BUY-1
EURCHF-BUY-1
USDCAD-BUY-1
CADJPY-BUY-1
CADCHF-BUY-1
GBPUSD-SELL-1
GBPCHF-BUY-1
GBPJPY-BUY-1

or to minimise your risk against the USD further, consider the following ratios:

AUDUSD-SELL-0.5
AUDCHF-BUY-1
AUDJPY-BUY-1
EURUSD-SELL-0.5
EURJPY-BUY-1
EURCHF-BUY-1
USDCAD-BUY-0.5
CADJPY-BUY-1
CADCHF-BUY-1
GBPUSD-SELL-0.5
GBPCHF-BUY-1
GBPJPY-BUY-1

Here is my main currency ring one day later after the USDJPY surge last night:

Which is what sparked my concern about USD exposure and relying on its strength. Because that could look very different after a solid week or two of USDJPY declines, hence my idea about eliminating the XXXUSD trade from the ring altogether, or just reducing its ratio.

Today profit 0.5%

Great news man - do you just close the entire circle when you reach x profit then open the whole thing again? I’ve just gone live with this, as my demo account has now reached 125K even with the USDJPY down today its still going up:

I decided to go ahead with the 1-1-1 ratio of XXXUSD, XXXJPY, XXXCHF ring. Wish me luck :slight_smile:

yes, because sometimes it returns minus if it’s left too long. hit and run

Today profit 2 circle