Please please help me (All please do read and comment)

Beginner Questions
41

Hello ILPM,

A lot of people thought Einstein had zero potential - and look where he went. Same with Michael Jordan, or Beethoven, or many great people who were told by others they had ‘Zero Potential’.

As to the people you talk about that had expressed how ‘motivated and determined they were’, if after two weeks they gave up, then clearly what they expressed was not true. Hence, this has nothing to do with actually having ‘motivated and determinatined’, which by definition would be a complete contradiction from the people you described.

And if even if they didn’t have any ‘aptitude’, in two weeks they are certainly not going to build the skills necessary, so this is also a mute point whether they had it or not in relationship to their success.

On another note, how do you describe ‘below average level intellect’? Where is your boundary and definition for this, and what does that actually mean? My friend who had ADHD may have even classified himself in this category you describe, yet he made it.

I know a Tibetan Buddhist teacher who scored a 66 on an IQ test, yet when they tested his brain for certain things, the neuro-scientists couldn’t actually explain why he had over 900% activity in large portions of his brain that would suggest anything but a 66 IQ.

Also, you mention physical attributes and becoming/not becoming an olympian. Spud Webb was one of the shortest individuals ever to become a professional basketball player, and I wonder how many people told him he ‘couldn’t because he did not have any physical gifts or aptitude’? Even at 47, he can still dunk (in suit pants and a dress shirt). For a video on this, check out the link (Spud Webb Proves He Can Still Dunk At Age 47! - YouTube) and go to about :50.

Although I think you make some interesting points, you seem quite judgmental about Kashif and ‘what he is’, and ‘is not’ (just my observation here, which I’m willing to be wrong about). It seems like you have a fixed point of view of him, and believe your ‘view’ to be the ‘truth’ about him, and have a monopoly on his truth. And not just about him, but about successful traders, and what it takes to become one (as if there is only one path).

Along those lines, let me ask you a question…what if you are wrong about Kashif? Have you ever been wrong about your ‘view’ of anyone for that matter? I’m not saying you are or are not which is immaterial to me. But to have such a fixed view of him seems limiting.

Now I appreciate the wisdom of what you are trying to help Kashif with - which is see areas he can help/improve his process, let him know this isn’t going to be easy, that he can probably work on a few things, etc. which I think is all very useful and kind of you to share these things.

But I’m going to disagree with you that every profitable trader ‘learned independently’. In Market Wizards, many of them had great mentors or people they learned from, and speak of this. Jim Rogers worked with Soros, Drunkenmiller as well, all who learned a lot from him. There are great traders that have worked under Drunkenmiller and Rogers, who now run their own funds, so I don’t see this as being a requirement.

In martial arts, how many people ‘learn independently’? In archery, how many? In playing the piano, how many? Probably next to none, save for some exceptional individuals, yet many still become good martial artists, or archers, or piano players.

Trading is no different.

Sure, some people can learn on their own, but not all (maybe less than more), and there are many people that have learned from others, who are now profitable.

I do appreciate you mentioning how it helps to ask ‘focused’ and ‘specific’ questions - very useful for sure, but maybe they are not there yet, and have to start somewhere. Does that mean because they are not asking these questions, they will be a failure in trading? Imo - no, and I think its to be determined.

And as to ‘trading from the comfort of their home’ statement, maybe you misinterpreted how they used the word ‘comfort’. Maybe they have a long commute to work, hate their job, like their home, and like the idea of working from home to where it would feel ‘comfortable’. Does that mean they automatically are seeing things in terms of ‘comfort’? I think that is just one interpretation, but not a monopoly on the truth of Kashif.

I wanted to work from the ‘comfort’ of my home, and I have been for almost a decade. This doesn’t apply to me, so why Kashif? When I was expressing that 13 years ago, I had no intentions of wanting things to be ‘comfy’, because I understood how learning skill based things went via my experience in martial arts, or playing soccer, or many of the things I did in my life. Yet I still wanted to trade from the ‘comfort’ of my home, mostly because I’m a home-body (as the expression goes).

Does this mean I was a ‘demotivated’ person? I don’t think so, and perhaps that is not Kashif.

And how many people did look for EA’s, or signal services in their beginning, yet are now good traders? I’m guessing many, and many admit this themselves.

My point is to have such a ‘frozen’ view of someone, and to have such a rigid view about what makes a successful trader, how the process goes, and that they need this ‘aptitude’ which can be built, seems limited imo, and not really supportive of the learning process.

Can it help? Absolutely. Useful? For sure. Necessary in the beginning to be successful? Certainly not.

I will say I do appreciate you wanting to inform him/her of the challenges they will face along the way, and I think that is useful, so hopefully Kashif and others recognize this. But I think there are more open minded ways to help kashif in their process, while not having such (what would appear to be imo) fixed views of them, and what is ‘the’ way traders become successful.

Just my thoughts, but a good discussion indeed.

Kind Regards,
Chris Capre

42

Hello MG,

Well said. Yes, you can read about this in many books on learning. Anders Erikson talks about this at length (one of the foremost experts on learning and ‘talent’). ‘Outliers’ discusses this as well. Another book is ‘Guitar Zero’. I could list more, but they all talk about this in detail, and pretty much say it the way you do - that ‘talent’ and ‘aptitude’ are well over-rated, and that ‘deliberate practice’ is far superior then ‘talent’ and ‘aptitude’, which is my general point here.

Kind Regards,
Chris Capre

43

Well with that well researched evidence I can’t say anything more.

44

[QUOTE=“2ndSkiesForex;497620”]

Hello ILPM,

A lot of people thought Einstein had zero potential - and look where he went. Same with Michael Jordan, or Beethoven, or many great people who were told by others they had ‘Zero Potential’.

As to the people you talk about that had expressed how ‘motivated and determined they were’, if after two weeks they gave up, then clearly what they expressed was not true. Hence, this has nothing to do with actually having ‘motivated and determinatined’, which by definition would be a complete contradiction from the people you described.

And if even if they didn’t have any ‘aptitude’, in two weeks they are certainly not going to build the skills necessary, so this is also a mute point whether they had it or not in relationship to their success.

On another note, how do you describe ‘below average level intellect’? Where is your boundary and definition for this, and what does that actually mean? My friend who had ADHD may have even classified himself in this category you describe, yet he made it.

I know a Tibetan Buddhist teacher who scored a 66 on an IQ test, yet when they tested his brain for certain things, the neuro-scientists couldn’t actually explain why he had over 900% activity in large portions of his brain that would suggest anything but a 66 IQ.

Also, you mention physical attributes and becoming/not becoming an olympian. Spud Webb was one of the shortest individuals ever to become a professional basketball player, and I wonder how many people told him he ‘couldn’t because he did not have any physical gifts or aptitude’? Even at 47, he can still dunk (in suit pants and a dress shirt). For a video on this, check out the link (Spud Webb Proves He Can Still Dunk At Age 47! - YouTube) and go to about :50.

Although I think you make some interesting points, you seem quite judgmental about Kashif and ‘what he is’, and ‘is not’ (just my observation here, which I’m willing to be wrong about). It seems like you have a fixed point of view of him, and believe your ‘view’ to be the ‘truth’ about him, and have a monopoly on his truth. And not just about him, but about successful traders, and what it takes to become one (as if there is only one path).

Along those lines, let me ask you a question…what if you are wrong about Kashif? Have you ever been wrong about your ‘view’ of anyone for that matter? I’m not saying you are or are not which is immaterial to me. But to have such a fixed view of him seems limiting.

Now I appreciate the wisdom of what you are trying to help Kashif with - which is see areas he can help/improve his process, let him know this isn’t going to be easy, that he can probably work on a few things, etc. which I think is all very useful and kind of you to share these things.

But I’m going to disagree with you that every profitable trader ‘learned independently’. In Market Wizards, many of them had great mentors or people they learned from, and speak of this. Jim Rogers worked with Soros, Drunkenmiller as well, all who learned a lot from him. There are great traders that have worked under Drunkenmiller and Rogers, who now run their own funds, so I don’t see this as being a requirement.

In martial arts, how many people ‘learn independently’? In archery, how many? In playing the piano, how many? Probably next to none, save for some exceptional individuals, yet many still become good martial artists, or archers, or piano players.

Trading is no different.

Sure, some people can learn on their own, but not all (maybe less than more), and there are many people that have learned from others, who are now profitable.

I do appreciate you mentioning how it helps to ask ‘focused’ and ‘specific’ questions - very useful for sure, but maybe they are not there yet, and have to start somewhere. Does that mean because they are not asking these questions, they will be a failure in trading? Imo - no, and I think its to be determined.

And as to ‘trading from the comfort of their home’ statement, maybe you misinterpreted how they used the word ‘comfort’. Maybe they have a long commute to work, hate their job, like their home, and like the idea of working from home to where it would feel ‘comfortable’. Does that mean they automatically are seeing things in terms of ‘comfort’? I think that is just one interpretation, but not a monopoly on the truth of Kashif.

I wanted to work from the ‘comfort’ of my home, and I have been for almost a decade. This doesn’t apply to me, so why Kashif? When I was expressing that 13 years ago, I had no intentions of wanting things to be ‘comfy’, because I understood how learning skill based things went via my experience in martial arts, or playing soccer, or many of the things I did in my life. Yet I still wanted to trade from the ‘comfort’ of my home, mostly because I’m a home-body (as the expression goes).

Does this mean I was a ‘demotivated’ person? I don’t think so, and perhaps that is not Kashif.

And how many people did look for EA’s, or signal services in their beginning, yet are now good traders? I’m guessing many, and many admit this themselves.

My point is to have such a ‘frozen’ view of someone, and to have such a rigid view about what makes a successful trader, how the process goes, and that they need this ‘aptitude’ which can be built, seems limited imo, and not really supportive of the learning process.

Can it help? Absolutely. Useful? For sure. Necessary in the beginning to be successful? Certainly not.

I will say I do appreciate you wanting to inform him/her of the challenges they will face along the way, and I think that is useful, so hopefully Kashif and others recognize this. But I think there are more open minded ways to help kashif in their process, while not having such (what would appear to be imo) fixed views of them, and what is ‘the’ way traders become successful.

Just my thoughts, but a good discussion indeed.

Kind Regards,
Chris Capre[/QUOTE]

So you are saying there was nothing special about einstein’s mind (aka aptitude towards math and physics) and that any person could achieve what he did with a enough determination and will? Lol we both know thats not the case…Their are people who are a cut above the rest in certain specialized areas of life… To me this is the definition of aptitude. And this is absolutely necessary in certain fields that are very demanding… Like trading full time for a career… There is a reason most fail at this.

You are right, I do have a “fixed” view of things that I have, after analysis, come to a conclusion to. I am analytical… That’s why I make a great trader. People can be analyzed like anything else… And it doesn’t take a ph.d is human study to pick up on certain traits and characteristics of people and determine how likely it is that they will excel at certain activities… Sure I may occasionally be wrong… But statistically I would be generally right… I’m sure you as a trader can understand that concept.

When I see you thinking of me as being “judgemental” and closed minded because I’m stating an unpolitical correct but clearly obvious observation… I see your “open mindedness” and unwillingness to say things that may be hard for some to hear as pandering… You don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings so lets just tell them “you can do it! Just set your mind to it!”. That’s nearly as bad as telling a terminally ill cancer patient that “everything is going to be ok!”

Kashi mentioned “comfort” as the primary driver for his trading… Their is no misconception on my part. Comfort seekers don’t stick with something as difficult as this trading thing can be…

I didn’t say “every trader has learned independently” I said “being able to learn independently is a primary characteristic of successful traders”… Yeh a very select few individuals of the billions that have walked this earth have been fortunate enough to be taught by a independently learned individual who became extremely successful and felt the need to pass down his knowledge… Those are the extremely rare instances.

And no… A 4’ 8" man will never medal in the Olympic high jump…

There are some people who are just physically stronger then others… That’s part of their genetic makeup… The brain is just as affected by genetics as any other muscle in the body… And as such, some people are just mentally stronger then others… There is no arguing that this is an advantage in an occupation that can be described as solely a mental exercise…

As for a discussion regarding traders on here who lack the apptitude but have all the determination and will power imagineable… Have you heard of the guy on here who went by the screen name Akeakami… He’s been trading 5 years and has lost $20k… Explain to me how he is lacking in determination and motivation after sticking with this for 5 years…? So if its not determination he is lacking what is it…? It is that magically intangible quality… APPTITUDE!

45

[QUOTE=“JackMarkets;497623”]

Well with that well researched evidence I can’t say anything more.[/QUOTE]

I think it was something called Deliberate Practice in the Acquisition of Expert Performance.

I’m too lazy to google it up, but it was a good read.

46

Hello ILPM,

Hmm, there seems to be a misunderstanding here about what I am saying.

My point about ‘aptitude’ in the way you speak of it, is it is not necessary in the beginning to become a good trader, or anything for that matter. The experts in the field of cognitive learning/neuro-scientific learning (I’m guessing you are not one of them) all state this. Abilities and skills can be learned. People can become highly skillful at something without ‘aptitude’ or being a ‘cut above the rest’.

And nobody is saying what you communicated as ‘un-politicially’ correct. I never even mentioned the word (politically). And nobody ever stated I was unwilling to say things that may be hard for some people. I communicate these things all the time to my students, but I try to do them with skillful means, so I think you are mis-informed about me.

And who determines whether you would be ‘statistically or generally right’ about others? Does this apply to me about you? What if I ‘although occasionally be wrong about you, am generally/statistically right’? What if in this instance, I am more accurate in my observations of you, or about trading, then of you towards Kashif or me?

In regards to being ‘judgmental’, or ‘close minded’, isn’t having ‘fixed’ views of people being ‘close minded’?

I’m not worried about hurting one’s feelings per se, but I do prefer to use skill in these things, especially when it comes to the learning process or early stages for a trader. I’d rather say more often ‘you can learn to do this with the right effort, determination, and practice’, then your version.

I’m willing to venture that if you and I both took 100 students who had no experience in trading and gave them your training methods, while I applied mine to their learning process, I’d produce far more successful students than you would.

Lastly, I think you are inaccurate in your statement ‘very select individuals of the billions that have walked this earth have bene fortunate enough to be taught by an independently learned individual…’

I’d say its quite the opposite - that most people who are successful at almost any skill based endeavor, had in fact learned from others, including trading. I’m willing to venture it is overwhelmingly true for Martial Artists. Who became an expert martial artist without learning/training from another?.

As to archers, how many became an olympic archer without learning from someone or working with some coach?

And I’m pretty confident this is the same for most concert Pianists, or Hockey players, or anyone who has become good/successful in their skill based endeavors.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Anyways, a good discussion, and I appreciate you sharing some valid points and useful information here.

10-4, over and out.

Kind Regards,
Chris Capre

47

[QUOTE=“2ndSkiesForex;497636”]
And who determines whether you would be ‘statistically or generally right’ about others? Does this apply to me about you? What if I ‘although occasionally be wrong about you, am generally/statistically right’? What if in this instance, I am more accurate in my observations of you, or about trading, then of you towards Kashif or me?
[/QUOTE]

If I am “generally correct” that means when I make a statement it should be heeded as it has a high probability of occurring…

Lets pose this issue in a different perspective… If you were to make a wager regarding Kashif’s likelihood of becoming a successful trader which way would you place the bet?

[QUOTE=“2ndSkiesForex;497636”]

Lastly, I think you are inaccurate in your statement ‘very select individuals of the billions that have walked this earth have bene fortunate enough to be taught by an independently learned individual…’

I’d say its quite the opposite - that most people who are successful at almost any skill based endeavor, had in fact learned from others, including trading. I’m willing to venture it is overwhelmingly true for Martial Artists. Who became an expert martial artist without learning/training from another?.

As to archers, how many became an olympic archer without learning from someone or working with some coach?

And I’m pretty confident this is the same for most concert Pianists, or Hockey players, or anyone who has become good/successful in their skill based endeavors.
[/QUOTE]

Im speaking in terms of learning trading from a successful trader. You can’t compare finding a successful trading mentor to learn from to finding a piano teacher, or sports instructor… Most forex “teachers” are full of it… Charging for generic and vague instructions with little evidence of actually being successful themselves… The success of other instructors in other fields is easily seen and the skills and progress are more easily quantifiable… No one ever hires a piano teacher who they have never seen play the piano (well I’m sure there are some buffoons who do… Same people who give money to someone online to teach them forex when they have never seen the person prove they can actually trade)… Yet that’s is what most forex instructors suggest you do. It is very very rare that any retail trader would find a successful, legitimate trader (who actually is able to prove he is a successful trader) to learn from… Very rare.

48

[B][U]@2ndSkiesForex[/U][/B]

Bro your comments and suggestions almost bring tears to my eyes. Really I am very thankful to you for encouraging me and I completely agree with you on the “Will Power” thing. I read all your posts thoroughly and I am very thankful to you for your kind words and motivation. Seriously I was very shocked because of Pizza’s comments but your comments relieved me now. I don’t know why he is being so judgmental on me. There are several people out there use EAs and also signal services and make good profits so whats the problem if I asked about it? I have seen here too posts asking about EAs and Signal services but none of them ever get a reply to “Leave Forex. Its not for you” kind of thing. I asked about comfort because of my IBS problem. But I think Pizza didnt understand what I meant to say. However I hope he is not that kind of judgmental in his life lol. I am very thankful to you bro for understanding me, Motivating me and for everything which brought back my confidence. Hats off to you bro :slight_smile:

[B][U]@ILovePizzaMore[/U][/B]

Bro I read all your posts and I don’t understand why you are so judgmental about people? Are you like this in your real life too? I mean if someone asks a question about something which you think is stupid do you think that guy is not capable of doing that thing? Of course everyone can google but why this forum is made then? I came here to ask seniors who are experts in this field to help me and correct me if I am doing something wrong. Is it bad? Remember I used the word ‘correct me’ I would appreciate more if instead of a negative response you try to point out my mistakes. You took my word “Comfort” but did you care to read why I said I want to work in the comfort of my home? If you have read the line before, I told that I have IBS. Now if you don’t know about IBS you have to google it instead of posting your comments based on my “comfort” word. Yes there are people out there doing hard jobs in spite of having IBS but I am not one of them. I suffer from depression, panic attacks and IBS and due to this I prefer to work in the comfort of my home.

Bro how can be you so sure Forex isn’t for me? Did you meet me? Did I have an interview of assessment with you? You just based your strong opinion on my post. [U]Honestly do you think its fair? [/U]

My father once told me that there is no substitute for hard work. If a person is very intelligent but he is not hardworking he will be a failure but if a person has only average brain but he has the will to work hard he will be a successful person. Now you may also disagree with this but I believe in it and will continue to believe in it. I have very strong aptitude towards Forex but if you cant see it that’s not my problem.

There is one positive change in me because of your negative comment is that now I will work more. I have now made this a challenge for myself to prove you wrong and God willingly I am very hopeful that one day I will trade Forex like the big boys.

49

Thanks a lot guys for your detailed replies. I am already started school so I am confident. Thanks for your suggestions and motivation.

50

[QUOTE=“kashif314;497645”]@2ndSkiesForex

Bro your comments and suggestions almost bring tears to my eyes. Really I am very thankful to you for encouraging me and I completely agree with you on the “Will Power” thing. I read all your posts thoroughly and I am very thankful to you for your kind words and motivation. Seriously I was very shocked because of Pizza’s comments but your comments relieved me now. I don’t know why he is being so judgmental on me. There are several people out there use EAs and also signal services and make good profits so whats the problem if I asked about it? I have seen here too posts asking about EAs and Signal services but none of them ever get a reply to “Leave Forex. Its not for you” kind of thing. I asked about comfort because of my IBS problem. But I think Pizza didnt understand what I meant to say. However I hope he is not that kind of judgmental in his life lol. I am very thankful to you bro for understanding me, Motivating me and for everything which brought back my confidence. Hats off to you bro :slight_smile:

@ILovePizzaMore

Bro I read all your posts and I don’t understand why you are so judgmental about people? Are you like this in your real life too? I mean if someone asks a question about something which you think is stupid do you think that guy is not capable of doing that thing? Of course everyone can google but why this forum is made then? I came here to ask seniors who are experts in this field to help me and correct me if I am doing something wrong. Is it bad? Remember I used the word ‘correct me’ I would appreciate more if instead of a negative response you try to point out my mistakes. You took my word “Comfort” but did you care to read why I said I want to work in the comfort of my home? If you have read the line before, I told that I have IBS. Now if you don’t know about IBS you have to google it instead of posting your comments based on my “comfort” word. Yes there are people out there doing hard jobs in spite of having IBS but I am not one of them. I suffer from depression, panic attacks and IBS and due to this ****tail I prefer to work in the comfort of my home.

Bro how can be you so sure Forex isn’t for me? Did you meet me? Did I have an interview of assessment with you? You just based your strong opinion on my post. Honestly do you think its fair?

My father once told me that there is no substitute for hard work. If a person is very intelligent but he is not hardworking he will be a failure but if a person has only average brain but he has the will to work hard he will be a successful person. Now you may also disagree with this but I believe in it and will continue to believe in it. I have very strong aptitude towards Forex but if you cant see it that’s not my problem.

There is one positive change in me because of your negative comment is that now I will work more. I have now made this a challenge for myself to prove you wrong and God willingly I am very hopeful that one day I will trade Forex like the big boys.[/QUOTE]

Take my word as from someone who has “been there … done that” … I know what it takes to be successful in this business. Just like sports recruiters can spot talent and can tell who will likely do well and who likely will not.

The fact you are getting so emotional over some words of encouragement a stranger is giving you over the internet is even more indication that trading isn’t your thing… emotions can literally kill you in this business.

I am trying to help you because all i foresee in this path you are about to embark on is massive amounts of wasted time, frustration, opportunity cost, and lost money. Remember me in 6-12 months when what I am talking about becomes reality.

51

People that are constantly on the of offense have issues themselves. And Pizza is yet to discover issues regarding his current trading method.

Just breathe deep. Even if you don’t have it in you to become a profitable trader, there are other avenues one can follow here if one remains focused. Like teaching other people the basics of trading and/or becoming an IB for example

52

Just wanted to point out that the video you used to illustrate that anything is possible, is actually Spud Webb using a chair or some sort of structure to make it [I]appear[/I] he can still dunk. Fitting for this industry where mentors, teachers and guru’s like to give the illusion that they and anybody can be successful, usually for monetary gain of course.

53

how dare they lol

54

Great post, Chris.
Unrelated, do you listen to Joe Rogan podcast maybe?

55

[QUOTE=“konan;497657”]People that are constantly on the of offense have issues themselves. And Pizza is yet to discover issues regarding his current trading method.

Just breathe deep. Even if you don’t have it in you to become a profitable trader, there are other avenues one can follow here if one remains focused. Like teaching other people the basics of trading and/or becoming an IB for example[/QUOTE]

Yes but be sure to charge for teaching generic trading advice… That’s the key.

56

In case you didn’t realise I was being sarcastic, but you knew that already. There’s a plethora of information that says natural talent is important. Quoting an outlying opinion means nothing. Also pretty much every NFL and NBA scout will disregard you unless you have the natural talent and characteristics. Or maybe they just haven’t read that book, or watched “Rudy”?

Of course, you can’t get away with just being intelligent in forex. Sit a nuclear physicist down and I am sure that they will not be a world class trader in a day. You need the combination of work and talent to make it. Here is a balanced article on the subject that discusses both camps of natural talent vs work and provides references:
The Science of Sport: Nature vs nurture
The summary is that you need natural talent, and also the work on top.

As I mentioned in chat, I am quite tired of the charlatans that try to encourage people with no aptitude for trading to try and entice them into their paid teaching courses. The whole “you can do it if you put your mind to it” and “just come to my thread for advice” and later “just visit my website for some paid courses” is a variation on the long con.

Decent traders need capital, intelligence, and THE RIGHT education (either self or paid) to be successful. Without any of these factors or the wrong education (ICT or another generic teaching school) then they will lose their hard earned money.

57

Kash, you’re still here?
After these past exchanges many would have run away and hidden under the bed. 

You asked for some direction, so with nothing to gain I offer up the following.

  1. Go through the BPips School

  2. Read Dr. Alexander Elder’s Trading for a Living: Psychology, Trading Tactics, Money Management. The most salient points of the book have to do with psychology, pay close attention to these.

  3. Read Mark Douglas “Trading In The Zone”. This book focuses on the psychological aspects of trading

  4. Find and watch the BBC series “Million Dollar Trader”, pay attention to the person who won, and what attributes they have. Since they were all trading the same system, the system was obviously not the problem.

  5. Go to stocharts.com and go through the chart school there

  6. Finally, on the subject of emotions, find the PBS program. “Trader”, it is all about P.T. Jones, as you will see he does not stoically sit in front of a computer.

Now a personal anecdote. I have two cousins that flew F15E’s in “Operation Desert Storm”. I will tell you this, I could not have done what they did, why? Because I am genetically inferior :open_mouth: Waaaahhhhhh I wanna be a fighter pilot. Well you can’t because you can’t pass the eye chart without glasses. But, But, But my guru says I can. Well you get the point.

There is no way, no matter how I hard I tried; I could ever, ever have gotten my wings. I am saying this so that you understand, even if you find the trading is too difficult, it does not mean you are a dummy, or an inferior person, just means you can’t do something that most people can’t do either. Oh and by the way, my cousins were told at each step in their training that there are only a few that have the “right stuff’. They wanted to be fighter pilots, but would have been just as proud to serve as transport or tanker pilots.

Now, one more observation. You said that you have a “very strong aptitude for FOREX” unfortunately, GrassHopper, your P&L says otherwise. Please do not confuse desire, which is an emotion, with ability, which is a fact.
Anyway, don’t take any wooden nickels, watch your health, and best wishes

The Ever Keeping An Eye On The Sky VIPER

58

Hello Traders,

This is my last response here as the discussion has become petty so will consolidate with a few points;

  1. @ Kashif - avoid listening to people who are generally negative, judgmental towards you, or communicate you cannot do it. Michael Jordan had 1000’s of people tell him ‘he could not do it’, and look where he got to.

JK Rowling was not accepted into Oxford (because she did not have the ‘aptitude’). Her book was submitted to 12 publishing houses, all of which rejected her manuscript (I’m guessing they thought she did not have the ‘aptitude’ to be a good writer). Today she is the UK’s best selling author since record keeping of this began and currently the 12th richest woman in the UK.

Sylvestor Stallone’s ‘Rocky’ manuscript was accepted, but he was rejected by many studios because he wanted to play the lead role. They all told him he did not have the ‘aptitude’ to be the lead actor. He was nominated for Best Actor.

I can go on and on and on with stories like this - point is don’t let anyone tell you what you cannot do. You are not disabled that you cannot trade, control risk, learn a rule based system, manage your emotions, and pull the trigger on your syste. Your ‘abilities’ and ‘aptitudes’ now are not frozen forever - they can increase or decrease depending upon you.

Will you become a successful trader? I have no idea - depends heavily on your mindset and the choices/actions you make from this moment forward. But even if you fail, the information, experience, and going for something that you are passionate about will be rewarding in and of itself (success or failure be damned).

  1. @ Viper - Some good recommendations on the books/videos. FYI - nobody is saying if you are missing an arm, but want to play basketball in the NBA that ‘you can do it’. This is a complete mis-interpretation of my message and I never stated anything like this. Kashif has the minimal things required to venture into trading, and mindset will be one of the most important factors to his success. I’d rather build him/it up, then tell him he cannot do it based on the limited information available to all.

And when did I ever say the word ‘guru’ or call myself one? I have never used this word about myself. I share a perspective, and if people like it and find it useful - great. If not, no worries, and I hope they find useful information for their trading.

I’m not telling him ‘it’s easy, you can do it no matter what - just put your mind to it’. I am saying ‘it is certainly possible, and you give yourself the best edge by applying the most important tool in this matter - your mind and mindset’. Trading is quite hard, and could take years to become good at it. But if you want to do it, don’t let starting capital, or people telling you ‘you don’t have what it takes’ stop you.

  1. @ Jack Markets - some interesting points and a good article. Note in the article they state at the end “sports science [B]hasn’t fully worked out what determines performance[/B], and that [B]performance is the result of a cluster of physiological, psychological and environmental traits that are currently too complex for us to analyse.[/B]” So according to them, they are not sure precisely what ‘sports performance’ comes from specifically, just that they feel its a combination of physical, psychological, and environment - but still admit its ‘too complex’ for them to analyze.

Do we have a definitive answer on what precisely is needed to become a successful trader? I’m guessing we are not there yet, so anyone here (especially since nobody here is an authority on training traders), claiming they know better seems speculative at best. However being that I have worked with thousands, and helped many to become profitable, I do feel I have some useful information on the subject.

One last point about this article - notice how he follows this up with talking about ‘hard work’ which is part of one’s ‘mindset’;

  1. @ Konan - thanks for the positive comments. I don’t listen to Joe Rogan, except when watching the UFC events.

  2. RE: Spud Webb video - my bad.

  3. @ ILPM - read any book on Navy Seals BUDS training, and they will all state the main difference between people who complete the course - and those who don’t is ‘mental toughness’. Everyone there had a minimal level of ‘aptitude’ to be a Seal - with many being world class athletes. Yet 75%+ fail. Why? ‘Mental Toughness’. Therefore, I think ‘mindset’ and ‘mental toughness’ is far more important than ‘aptitude’.

Now Seals are an Elite level of Combat troops, so ‘aptitude’ will have to be there for sure. But people with a lot less ‘aptitude’, or lower levels of ‘aptitude’ who would never make Seals, could still serve and do highly useful things in combat.
Maybe Kashif will not be a Seal level trader, but he certainly could with the right mindset, effort, determination, etc. make huge strides, perhaps eventually become a profitable trader. And that is what we are talking about here - becoming profitable - not becoming elite bank trader level. So imo ‘aptitude’ to be a ‘cut above the rest’ will be of lower/lesser importance, because imo its not a fixed/permanent thing he will never have, or will always have (but can be built).

Anyways, a good discussion and all the best to you.

Kind Regards,
Chris Capre

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So what determined why some SEAL cadets have “mental toughness” and others don’t… Like you said 75% fail even though they have the requirements… So their is an intangible quality that many are missing… If you want to call it “mental toughness” then do so… But that’s a characteristic that some have and some don’t… Therefore giving the ones that have it an advantage… That is an aptitude.

It’s a fact of life… Some people lack certain natural abilities… Physical or mental that make certain jobs hard if not impossible to excel at. Others have more then the average amount which allows them to excel in certain very specialized fields. Thats why many schools have career counselors that give student apptitude tests to match them to a career that they would naturally excel at. To reject this concept is a rejection of reality…There’s nothing really more to discuss on that.

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Thanks for the reply. Yes I hope I will remember you in 6 or 12 months time but not as you said. Hopefully I will remember you as a person who I proved wrong. Like I said you before that due to your negative comment I started focusing more and took it as a challenge. Yesterday I made about 110 pips which I never did before in my life so I hope I ll grow as a trader gradually with time God willingly.

Thanks a lot for your comments and suggestions. I ll search all the books and will read them. Lol I am not going anywhere or hiding myself just because of few negative comments. The thing is that here we are not talking about things which require extreme setup like Jet Pilots etc. This is why I am saying that “Will Power” and “Hard Work” is essential for Forex trading. If someone has only one arm and he wants to play say baseball or someone with one leg wants to play football. Will he able to do it if he has will power? The answer is definitely “No” but like I said before that this is forex we are talking about and it doesn’t require those things which everyone is talking about to discourage me. Forex is something which a person with a average brain can do and if his eye sight is week that doesn’t matter as well. For instance my English is not good but if I study and study on how to improve it I will definitely improve myself. I am only two months in to Forex and there is no one here where I live to guide me. All I learn is by searching internet so I think I am doing good as a newbie. Thanks a lot for your suggestions and the books recommendations :slight_smile:

Thanks a million bro for your time and comments. Yes I will not listen to people who want to discourage me. I am not going to apply as a commercial pilot or going to Air force which require extreme mental and physical capabilities. Like I said above Forex is not complex. Its just that I need to understand it and I will God willingly for sure.

Thanks for your valuable suggestions :slight_smile: