[QUOTE=“IyaJenkei;483010”]No one here is a 911 truther? All this stuff is BS these attacks are instituted by the ones in power so they can grow their power.[/QUOTE]
Someone has spent a little too much time on the internets…
I didn’t know that I was.
You have no idea where I was born.
I’m delighted to dash your “sincere” hopes.
I believe in the God of the Bible — not some fake god who condones pressure-cooker bombs designed specifically to kill or maim innocent people.
Regarding the Wrath of God, obviously you don’t know what you’re talking about. The Wrath of God is reserved for [I]unbelievers.[/I] So, as a believer, I have no fear of the Wrath which you referred to.
People who hate or blame America are either liars, or have been deceived into believing lies. Does America have some corrupt people, some in places of power? Yes, but that doesn’t define America. America is about [B]individual freedom[/B].
What gets under my skin is perpetrators blaming good people for their own perpetrated destruction. Case in point" America’s current compaigner in chief, who somehow, manages to cast blame on all others, and keep a sizable number of americans believing he hasn’t been governing these last 5 years, that all of what’s happening, all that he has done, isn’t his fault.
It boils down to liars vs. sincere people. If someone’s motivation in life is just to keep to themselves, except to lend a helping hand to truly needy people, then why should they be bothered? It’s liars and thieves who just can’t keep to themselves. They love to attack, destroy, pillage, slander, steal, kill, bully, interrupt, trespass, lie, rape, take, be lazy, never help anybody, intrude, force others, get in the way, impede, deceive, nag, libel, commit fraud, disent, create chaos, confusion, pervert, blame others, abscond responsibility…get it?
Now, isn’t it a problem when a “holy religion” allows the above list as long as the person is “doing ji had”?
“not some fake god”
Clint, it’s all fake. Get it?
Ake bro, come on… There is no need to speak condescendingly to those of us who choose to believe in God. I can assure you that there is nothing fake about Jesus, and if you were to give him as little as the time of day, perhaps you might also see that.
Don’t rise to it, guys, Aaron just likes baiting people, these days. Sometimes it’s rather sad.
As an American, I think it benefits us to better understand anti-Americanism in the world. I watched the events on 9/11 up close, and will always remember that morning. In the weeks after, I was also very anti-muslim. Like many Americans I did not understand the difference between a Shiite and a Sunni, and did not really care. Working with many people from many other countries, I’ve come to understand that for many people, they grow up in extreme poverty in societies that are very oppressive. They see their govonrments recieving support from the US for the sake of controlling the price of oil, etc, which helps people in the US, but does nothing for countless millions in these countries. Of course these people are targets for the recruitment of extremists (insane) who want to hurt the innocent to further their own agenda. It does not help that many Americans have no clue what is going on around the rest of the world and many of us seem apathetic or justified when we hear that drone planes have killed more “terrorists” someplace else.
Aaron, I agree with some of what you’re saying, but I respectfully think that there is a way to convey it that is more productive, if you’re trying to get people really thinking.
The same god that condones public witch trials and burnings (still in Africa), or not that god of the Bible per se…?
I thought Aaron believed they only attack for religious reasons because we’re free. That’s complete bs.
Here are some excerpts from a speech I found by Osama that touches on what I’ve been saying.
"Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush’s claim that we hate freedom.
If so, then let him explain to us why we don’t strike for example - Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don’t possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 - may Allah have mercy on them.
No, we fight because we are free men who don’t sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.
No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again."
"I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.
The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.
I couldn’t forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.
The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn’t include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn’t respond.
In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.
And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.
And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance."
The speech is a quite lengthy, but I encourage everybody read it, before opening their arrogant mouth again.
Full transcript of bin Ladin’s speech - Archive - Al Jazeera English
[QUOTE=“wigglez;483661”]
I thought Aaron believed they only attack for religious reasons because we’re free. That’s complete bs.
Here are some excerpts from a speech I found by Osama that touches on what I’ve been saying.
"Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush’s claim that we hate freedom.
If so, then let him explain to us why we don’t strike for example - Sweden? And we know that freedom-haters don’t possess defiant spirits like those of the 19 - may Allah have mercy on them.
No, we fight because we are free men who don’t sleep under oppression. We want to restore freedom to our nation, just as you lay waste to our nation. So shall we lay waste to yours.
No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again."
"I say to you, Allah knows that it had never occurred to us to strike the towers. But after it became unbearable and we witnessed the oppression and tyranny of the American/Israeli coalition against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind.
The events that affected my soul in a direct way started in 1982 when America permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon and the American Sixth Fleet helped them in that. This bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorised and displaced.
I couldn’t forget those moving scenes, blood and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere. Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high rises demolished over their residents, rockets raining down on our home without mercy.
The situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child, powerless except for his screams. Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn’t include a weapon? And the whole world saw and heard but it didn’t respond.
In those difficult moments many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny, and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors.
And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children.
And that day, it was confirmed to me that oppression and the intentional killing of innocent women and children is a deliberate American policy. Destruction is freedom and democracy, while resistance is terrorism and intolerance."
The speech is a quite lengthy, but I encourage everybody read it, before opening their arrogant mouth again.
Full transcript of bin Ladin’s speech - Archive - Al Jazeera English[/QUOTE]
Really…? You are that gullible where you give the ramblings of a madman the time of day? Muslim terrorists kill and destroy because they are scum. Period. Even entertaining for a second the thought that these people are noble or have justification is ludicrous…
Muslim terrorists have killed more of their own countrymen, fellow Muslims, in Iraq with suicide bombings then what American forces have during any direct combat, many times over at that. The Muslim insane aren’t just limiting their attack towards America because of perceived injustices, they are opportunistic, pathetic individuals with nothing to live for who are brainwashed into radical beliefs…
They perpetuate violence against ANYONE or any process that provides law and order, regardless if it is America or if it has caused any social injustice to them at all.
You putting the propaganda of one responsible for thousands of American deaths on this site is disgusting.
So then where did you obtain the belief that they kill just because they are scum?
[QUOTE=“wigglez;483679”]
So then where did you obtain the belief that they kill just because they are scum?[/QUOTE]
They have killed more of their own countrymen then the logical target, which would be the perceived American Monsters… This means they are killing just for the bloodshed and to cause chaos, not to pursue a noble cause. Yet you are the one idealizing them???
The Taliban stone women for no particular reason then besides the husband or family is displeased with them. Rape is commonplace and very often the victim is punished by the community rather then the perpetrator. The list can go on and on… Yet you are the one idealizing them???
Agreed. Propaganda is exactly what that is. I was reading (I think I posted this once, before) about the then new state of Israel in an old 1960s encyclopedia. It was like reading today’s newspapers, as if nothing has changed in 50-60 years. Egypt, Syria, Lebonon, all bent on the destruction of Israel. Constantly whining when they were defeated, and pushed back by the army of Israel. Absolutely amazing that Israel defended herself, from day 1 as a state, with so few people fighting for her. Nothing has changed in the last half-century of Israel’s re-founded existence as a state. And still, the news and their enemys daily re-write history to portray Israel’s enemies as victims. North Korea does this too, as does all other tyrannical states. The media is nothing but an arm of tyranny, of trying to control. And al-jeezera, of all networks, now in the US, thanks to the biggest, most profiteering liar of them all, Al Gore. Talk about someone wanting to control other people…too much for me.
From an evolutionary standpoint humans are nothing but primates with guns and smart phones! USA has had maybe 9 years of peace since the last world war and maybe 150 years of peace since it’s founding. Significant parallels can and have been drawn between Roman Empire and today’s biggest empire. Pax Romana is now Pax Americana and Pizza and Celebrity Apprentice are your version of “bread and games”. It would be a good time to wake up, Pizza!
[QUOTE=“konan;483691”]From an evolutionary standpoint humans are nothing but primates with guns and smart phones! USA has had maybe 9 years of peace since the last world war and maybe 150 years of peace since it’s founding. Significant parallels can and have been drawn between Roman Empire and today’s biggest empire. Pax Romana is now Pax Americana and Pizza and Celebrity Apprentice are your version of “bread and games”. It would be a good time to wake up, Pizza![/QUOTE]
What…? Wake up from what exactly… I completely agree that America is in a self induced state of decline. Europe is a few decades ahead of us in the decline towards global irrelevancy spurred on by post-religion, secular, socialism.
That has nothing to do with my posts slamming the idealization of Muslim terrorists however.
All I’m saying, is that there is blood on every countries hands. People are suseptable to brainwashing when they live in terrible conditions and feel oppressed. That happens in the US as well with various hate groups. Part of the problem is that too many people in the US are content to fit in to the steryotype of the American who only cares about (or wants to know about) America. That does not work any more. We need to care about other peoples kids if we want them to care about ours.
[QUOTE=“Hogarste;483696”]All I’m saying, is that there is blood on every countries hands. People are suseptable to brainwashing when they live in terrible conditions and feel oppressed. That happens in the US as well with various hate groups. Part of the problem is that too many people in the US are content to fit in to the steryotype of the American who only cares about (or wants to know about) America. That does not work any more. We need to care about other peoples kids if we want them to care about ours.[/QUOTE]
It is never acceptable to excuse radical violent behavior against innocence based on the living conditions.
I’m not idealizing them. Just trying to understand why they do what they do.
Why so willing to believe our leaders propaganda and not theirs?
Whether he actually is fighting for the reasons he stated doesn’t make what he said about the u.s. any less true.
Nobody said their only enemy were Americans.
If you lived in the 18 hundreds you would have called Apachi’s and Sioux tribes terrorists, but history books still tell it as it was…The white man came to take the land and water which in turn made the natives so desperate that they fought the invasion with all means…