Is well edited if nothing else. Enjoy.
Blame the 2-party system. Two sides of the same idiotic coin. The media does a good job of convincing the american public that one of the 2 parties will represent their interests. They canāt even imagine the possibility that NEITHER party will EVER represent their interests. Itās really quite sad and pathetic. Feel sorry for the intelligent who have already built their homes and lives in that country, only to see it fall apart due to majority of fools around themā¦
Yeah, the founders were a bunch of slave owners, so the system they created is irrelevant how, huh?
It is very much relevant.
The system they gave us was great when we followed it.
I wouldnāt think of the 19th century economy as an example of prosperity, especially compared to the current conditions and society we live in.
We became the most prosperous nation in the world under that system. We certainly took off more than the Aussies and Canadians did.
Could it have maybe something to do with the benefits of the expansion of the empire through constant wars and aggressive involvement with international politics as opposed to the Canada and Australia?!(remember, USA didnāt invent Capitalism! The Brits were playing same games of Risk before you guys, exactly what led them to becoming the richest and most powerful country in the world, right until the point when US took that baton from their hands.
And in the span of 30 years after the Civil War we outpaced pretty much every European country.We went from being an afterthought to Europe to an economic powerhouse that out shined it and we did that because we had a very limited and small federal government that didnāt screw around with the economy, didnāt tax the hell out of everyone and didnāt regulate usā¦ At allā¦
All these issues were handled at the state level.
And then there came a time when the slaves had to be freed and given rights and women had to be given the same rights as men. You know, it was time for real democracy to be ushered in through Federal interventionsā¦
Guess what. We tried a new system like you suggested. This is a new system. There is no regard for the constitution, all our laws are defacto now.
The Newer and better is needed obviously, because this version is laggy as fck. :31:
And now we are 17 trillion in debt with an economy that only shows growth because of the $85 billion dollars that Bernanke conjures into existence every month, and this has an enormous cost.
Consumes are loaded in credit card debt, student loan debt, mortgage debt and are barely getting by.
The system needs constant growth or else it finds itself in recession. Would you have people live within their means, being content with their iPhone 4s and not buying new crappy iPhone 5ās and therefor tanking stock options of one of the brightest stars of capitalism?!
When our economy was thriving under the free market,
Yes, this was in the times of highest corporate taxes and while manufacturing jobs were still in the US ā¦
.there was almost no consumer debt, there was very little public debt, our national debt was basically nonexistent, when compared to today, and we had a real economy that outperformed and outgrew even our phony bubble economies.
Now you can joke about the founders and assume that they were a bunch of clueless, slave owning, fools that couldnāt imagine a modern society all you want,
Iāve never said that. There were brilliant men for their times. Those times are no more though.
their system took us to the top and this semi socialist, crony capitalist, nonsense we have now is tearing us down.Hopefully this political ideology of stimulus, more government involvement, more government regulations and artificial interest rates, dies with our economy. But I doubt it. History will continue to repeat itself.
Sorry you got banned buddy lolā¦what did he do? I wholeheartedly like his comment though and agree with it :30:
[QUOTE=ākonan;486095ā]
Sorry you got banned buddy lolā¦what did he do? I wholeheartedly like his comment though and agree with it :30:[/QUOTE]
He was a sock puppet accountā¦
Well no, not really. Slavery is no longer legal. The system THEY CREATED ended it. Itās called a constitutional amendment. Look into it. Itās what the federal government is SUPPOSED to do if they want more power.
Obviously I donāt want the technology from that time period. I want the growth and innovation from that time period. You act as if the 19th century was absolutely horrible. Well yes, compared to today the standard of living was horrible.
But what you fail to look at is what the standard of living was like prior to that. Back when there was no electricity, plumbing, light bulbs, cars and all the things that we STILL, use from that time period.
Back during that scary period of āunfettered capitalismā we had economic growth that vastly outpaced any of the fake growth during the recent bubbles. Our standard of living grew at a massive rate. Much more than it has in this progressive economy or during the bubbles.
Also, our standard of living is about to implode when this Keynesian economy finally tanks. The last recession is going to look like a picnic.
Not really. We didnāt really get into massive wars all over the place until the early 1900s. The fastest period of economic growth in US history was the 1870s to 1900s. Banana wars didnāt start until 1898 and the interventions back then were nothing compared to the interventions from WW1 onward.
Yes and we legally amended the constitution for those things. We didnāt pass arbitrary, illegal laws like we do now.
The system worked.
Umm no. Obviously not. Iām not sure if you or trolling or not because that is an incredibly asinine statement.
The reason the constitution and gaining new federal powers was ālagy as fckā was to prevent govt usurpationsā¦ You know, like the patriot act, Like the NDAA, like the multiple wars we are in now.
It was meant to prevent things likeā¦
And
Thatās what happens when you have an expansive federal government. Look at all that beautiful progressā¦
People NEED to live within their means. They havenāt been. Thatās the problem. Thatās what this cheap credit is preventing. People used to live within their means and we had massive growth. How do you explain the nearly non-existent consumer debt that we had when our economy was experiencing such massive growth before?
There was a corporate tax during the civil war but it expired in 1872. The next corporate tax was in 1894 but it was ruled unconstitutional. There was no corporate tax, income tax for the vast majority of that period of growth. Then in 1909 we got one and it was incorporated into the 16th amendmentā¦
If you are talking about the tax rates during the 50s, thatās laughable. Are you aware of all the loopholes in the 1950s? You could write off almost anything, and how many people do you think actually bothered paying it?
Stocks donāt represent the economy. Stocks are soaring right now, and yet the economy is floundering around. Stocks are going up because the Fed has a steady stream of funny money flowing.
Once interest rates go up, we are done. Your system failed and people will die because of it. Iād hate to be elderly or have some physical ailment where you require medical equipment or medicineā¦ I suppose you could say the Keynesians are murderers because anybody that has been made dependent on the government will be in for some deep crap, if they arenāt prepared for an economic and government implosion.
Youāre right. The times of the constitution are no more. Thatās why everything is going to hit the fan.
And on that note, I wonāt be debating for some time. Iād boast about being right when this artificial economy fails, but I probably wonāt have the leisure time to be on the Internet.
[QUOTE=jollygreenfello;486123]
Well no, not really. Slavery is no longer legal. The system THEY CREATED ended it. Itās called a constitutional amendment. Look into it. Itās what the federal government is SUPPOSED to do if they want more power.
Amendments need two thirds of the congress to vote them in and 3/4 of the states to ratify them. Thatās the system they left in place for the 13 States, not 40 or 50. What happens when the States just donāt want to play along with certain measures like the abolitionā¦? You get a bloody conflict. So from the getgo the system was very much flawed.
Obviously I donāt want the technology from that time period. I want the growth and innovation from that time period. You act as if the 19th century was absolutely horrible. Well yes, compared to today the standard of living was horrible.
Not satisfied with the exponential growth of technology we have today?? woot
But what you fail to look at is what the standard of living was like prior to that. Back when there was no electricity, plumbing, light bulbs, cars and all the things that we STILL, use from that time period.
Yes, the people living in the times before the industrial revolution had it worse than the Renaissance people who had it better than the people that lived in the medieval agesā¦
Back during that scary period of āunfettered capitalismā we had economic growth that vastly outpaced any of the fake growth during the recent bubbles. Our standard of living grew at a massive rate. Much more than it has in this progressive economy or during the bubbles.
Could you maybe put a date on that observation?
Also, our standard of living is about to implode when this Keynesian economy finally tanks. The last recession is going to look like a picnic.
Not really. We didnāt really get into massive wars all over the place until the early 1900s. The fastest period of economic growth in US history was the 1870s to 1900s. Banana wars didnāt start until 1898 and the interventions back then were nothing compared to the interventions from WW1 onward.
Lolā¦You mean the time period of bloody wars with the Native Americans for the land they occupied?! I said āconstant warsā not massive wars and here they are, all put in a chronological order. Timeline of United States military operations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes and we legally amended the constitution for those things. We didnāt pass arbitrary, illegal laws like we do now.
The system worked.
Ummā¦Jefferson Davies and Alexander Stephens disagreedā¦And they were right lol. The Proclamation of Emancipation was unconstitutional.
Umm no. Obviously not. Iām not sure if you or trolling or not because that is an incredibly asinine statement.
Not trolling. Itās the truth the way I see it.
The reason the constitution and gaining new federal powers was ālagy as fckā was to prevent govt usurpationsā¦ You know, like the patriot act, Like the NDAA, like the multiple wars we are in now.
in part, agreed.
It was meant to prevent things likeā¦
And
And things like
Thatās what happens when you have an expansive federal government. Look at all that beautiful progressā¦
It sucks to be alive during huge wars.
People NEED to live within their means. They havenāt been. Thatās the problem. Thatās what this cheap credit is preventing. People used to live within their means and we had massive growth. How do you explain the nearly non-existent consumer debt that we had when our economy was experiencing such massive growth before?
People had real jobs, real purchasing power. This was when people knew that debt is just another form of slavery. And letās be honest, they were living in the reality and not just watching it on TV like we do.
There was a corporate tax during the civil war but it expired in 1872. The next corporate tax was in 1894 but it was ruled unconstitutional. There was no corporate tax, income tax for the vast majority of that period of growth. Then in 1909 we got one and it was incorporated into the 16th amendmentā¦
If you are talking about the tax rates during the 50s, thatās laughable. Are you aware of all the loopholes in the 1950s? You could write off almost anything, and how many people do you think actually bothered paying it?
Many. The ones that didnāt want to go to jail?
Stocks donāt represent the economy. Stocks are soaring right now, and yet the economy is floundering around. Stocks are going up because the Fed has a steady stream of funny money flowing.
Once interest rates go up, we are done. Your system failed and people will die because of it. Iād hate to be elderly or have some physical ailment where you require medical equipment or medicineā¦ I suppose you could say the Keynesians are murderers because anybody that has been made dependent on the government will be in for some deep crap, if they arenāt prepared for an economic and government implosion.
Youāre right. The times of the constitution are no more. Thatās why everything is going to hit the fan.
And on that note, I wonāt be debating for some time. Iād boast about being right when this artificial economy fails, but I probably wonāt have the leisure time to be on the Internet.
Funny money very important because real money would make most people aware that they are still just peasants. 
I wouldnāt call it a debate but rather an exchange of ideas. I was talking to this girl the other day, well I hope it was a girl because all i could detect was a pair of eyes with a female voice. She was wearing the standard traditional Afghani āsackā over her and was just talking about the shows she likes on Fox and what ever. First thing I typed in as soon as entered the chat was : āWow, are you a real ninja?!ā She didnāt ban me tho, she got the joke and why was it a joke for us that live in a democratic societyā¦Later on I asked some other serious questions like "why do some smart and educated women of Muslim religion allow their men to subjugate and literally imprison them in their own homes aand why canāt I draw a picture of a guy that lived centuries ago and had (censored) with the (censored)ā¦You know, lolā¦Would you call that trolling or just plain old satire ?!
Have a good one jolly.
[QUOTE=ākonan;486235ā][/QUOTE]
Only thing that came to my mind was. What kind of chat were y in?
JustinTv dot com
[QUOTE=ākonan;486240ā]
JustinTv dot com[/QUOTE]
Ah yea I watch twitchtv sometimes.
Iāve posted some pretty opinionated posts, and in reading them, I can understand how they might seem extreme. I was a very conservative person, and I understand the various mantras pretty well. I appreciate that some people feel pretty strongly about the US Constitution, and a potical thread like this itās fun to banter ack and forth and blow of steam. Most of my conservative points of view have changed, as for me, Iāve realized that these issue type things I watched on Fox, actually affect real people.
I do think quality medical care and education should be available (somehow) to everyone regardless of economic means. I do think that in every way, discrimination should be a thing of the past. Personally, I do not think a state should have the right to have discriminatory rights on their books regardless of what the constitution or any holy book says.
Clint, I respect your points of view without a doubt, but I donāt think weāll ever agree. Like yourself, I have very strong feelings about 9/11, and it has been something that has at the very least been in the back of my mind since it happened. I will never forget that day, and in particular the sounds of thousands of us in the street below as we watched people jumping from the tower. I respect that you think itās a matter of extreme Islam declaring war, and I think itās a matter of the US needing to better understand why people around the world hold us accountable for their circumstances. I think that no person just trying to make it through their day and do to their job for their families, should have to worry about this junk, regardless of what country they are from. I canāt imagine that thought becoming a reality without the US thinking more globally. I appreciate that many of the Islamic terrorists are getting brainwashed in Mosqueās, but frequently, these folks are the ones in poverty and are being convinced that the US is at least partially responsible. These are (USUALLY) not evil people at birth.
People donāt actually watch fox for facts do they?
According to data from the FBIās uniform crime reports, California had the highest number of gun murders in 2011 with 1,220 ā which makes up 68 percent of all murders in the state that year and equates to 3.25 murders per 100,000 people.
But, the same year, look who was rated number 1 for gun control laws?
Texas had half that number, population: 26 million.
I used to be a very Republican person who regurgitated everything on Fox. I changed too. I became more libertarian.
Iāve realized that even Republicans have expanded government beyond its constitutional limits.
I donāt think stateās should discriminate eitherā¦ But that doesnāt mean you throw out the constitution. We didnāt arbitrarily allow women to vote, we added an amendment. We didnāt arbitrarily ban slavery, we amended the constitution to ban it.
The whole meaning of having a āliving documentā is that you can amend it when times change. We canāt throw out the rules just because of a particular set of circumstances or based on emotions. Thatās a good way to get tyranny.
I think these endless wars, along with the endless welfare and the endless entitlements and now the mandated healthcare are bankrupting us and destroying our nation.
My friend just got his hours cut so the company could avoid the Obamacare mandate. This sh*t is going to be a huge mess. Itās a shame that we are so content on destroying ourselves.
Can any of the big government lovers here explain to me why it is necessary to register seeds with the government, and why the European Commission is trying to ban seeds that arenāt registered with the government?
I mean honestly. How the hell am I expected to trust governmentās that wonāt even allow you to grow your own food without registering it?
That is FUBAR.
NWO, jolly. Frankly, that scares the sht out of me coz one whole side of my family are in the agricultural business. They own quite some land and produce fruitā¦Idunno why this might beā¦maybe to pave the way for Montsanto monopoly?!
I hope Iām misunderstanding you, but surely you arenāt suggesting that any of that justifies terrorism?
I thought you quit the thread, Simon. :22:
Youāre exactly right, of course. George Soros owns Montsano, and they only use hybrid\sterilized seeds for crops, which are unable to reproduce to be used for seed crop. And when bees cross pollinate other farmerās neighboring fields, it sterilizes their crops, so if their trying to keep some for seed, it ruins their seed crop. Eventually it will be a true monopoly, and yet another part of economy will be under someoneās control, outside of the individual. There are companies who are trying to sell ānon-hybridā seeds, but that can only last so long with the cross-pollination\sterilization problem. Soros is behind it.
I agree with Jollygreenfelloā¦itās really the ruling class pitted against the rest of us, and the rest of us is where the Tea Party came from, to stand up to the ruling class, regardless of political party. The sad thing is itās now obvious the ruling class is coming out against the rest of us, and it makes a third party more likely to pop up, but this will only split the vote, and cause eternal rule by the democrats. We need to take back the Republican Party via winning primaries at local, state, and Fed levels. My favorite example of this type of person we need is Ted Cruz, our TX senator. Heās out there saying what needs to be said, while old RINOās are trying to cling to their corrupt power, going along with the democrats. Tyranny vs. Liberty.
Thank you for advising that I clarify, I guess I did not make myself clear.
I am never ever ever suggesting that terrorism or violence is justified. I am saying that there is anti US feeling in the world, and it would benefit us to understand it better at itās source, instead of only thinking we can bomb it away, because the bombing we do creates even more hatred. In the US there are also hate groups, and usually the folks who join them are angry about their cicumstances. That does not make their actions justified, but Iād rather understand the source of the problem. Itās not that I want to be the weak country, I just want to be the smart country to figure out the best way to be the strong country.