UK government will be more independent because of Brexit, that may be positive for society.
Foreign agents (in foreign land) tend to be less trustworthy than domestic.
In a community comprising 27 countries it is clear that there is an overriding need for compromise on many things. And compromise always means that some people are satisfied with decisions and others are not.
Perhaps one of the biggest issues in the EU is whether the trend should be more towards a federal state network, similar to the US structure, or whether to maintain a significant degree of sovereignty within each nation that belongs to the Union.
Personally, I like the present balance where economic and fiscal policies and guidelines are agreed centrally and applied locally within each country. This way the Union is more likely to retain and promote a steady and uniform progress throughout the entire region. Any exceptions and problems are then addressed by the EU as a whole as in the case of Greece, Ireland and Spain. Of course, nothing works perfectly and there are always problems that crop up along the way.
Without a unified approach to monetary and fiscal policies and objectives (such as inflation and interest rates), it would be difficult, if not impossible to maintain a single currency in the form of the Euro. In the past tactics such as devaluations in currencies compensated structural changes in economic wealth, salaries, etc. But that is impossible with a single currency and therefore the impact of different environments would tend to appear in the migration of investment funds, businesses and workforces from one country to another.
The issue of migration is perhaps one of the strongest and most visible reasons why the UK could not comfortably work within the EU structure, especially since it has become an issue of large-scale asylum-seekers in addition to workers seeking better conditions. This is, of course, still a major issue for the EU itself and certainly raises national interests within the overall union structure.
I also like the attempt to balance unity and uniformity in some areas whilst retaining individual cultural and identity in others. Whilst I appreciate the value and advantages of the single currency, it was much more fun trading DEM FRF, NLG as well as GBP back in the day…
And, considering my interest in bank notes, sadly, gone are the days of the beautiful French style notes like this:
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And there was me thinking this thread was about the EU…
The title indicated it, but the forst post revealed what its really about 
Hi @Falstaff. If you would prefer this to be a discussion of:
" UK V. EU What’s it all about"
That would be fine with me and currently very topical as Boris Johnson makes his first meetings with Merkel and Macron this week?
But if so, then maybe we could edit the thread title to reflect that?
I just didn’t see the value in talking about EU27 as it moves forward (as the current title suggests) through the inevitably biased, probably over-emotional, and possibly acrimonious and bitter binoculars of the exiting UK.
Dunno @anon46773462, I had hoped we could have a grown up discussion, but I’m not sure we can actually.
Evidence presented is either +Brexit or -Brexit and there is actually very little out there giving a moderate view of the EU and it’s Institutions.
I understand your objections in your first post and you have some valid points. Why should I make some feel uncomfortable in their situation ?
I think when you look at some of the posts from “remainers” and “Others” on this thread and others, It feels a little as though they’ve been dropping “Soma” (Huxley).
In fact it seems there is a feeling of optimism among those posting that we had a way back in the '60s
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Insofar as "Love is all you need" and yet oddly the “love” only seems to extend to those who are also on the “Soma” and the drive to silence and ridicule anyone who offers the “Red Pill” is met with is remarkable.
In fact we (Uk is still “in” atm) are a conglomeration of many different cultures, languages, traditions and very different economies analogous perhaps with this ;
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Well in the '60’s, the logical if unpalatable truth was that the Hippies formed communes - wherein the children were treated as “communal property” and oft nobody even knew who their Fathers were - it was “unimportant” (although in reality - HUGELY important to the children as they grew up)
THe Communes eventually just petered out and “San Francisco” is now regarded by many as a drug infested place and one most people would not want to live in.
THe “Love culture” turned to the “Fat Wallet” - “ME-me-me” time of the 80’s
I do not say this will happen to the EU - I simply point out that the “Law of Unintended Consequences” is one of the most powerful of all natural “Laws”.
To me the “European Economic Community” which was ALL we voted to join back then - has turned into a Protectionist organisation and built Tariff walls around itself, to protect inefficiency.
Then as the “ever closer union” philosophy started to come about - some would say by subterfuge - some countries began to have doubts - In fact GreenLand was an early leaver and left the “EEC” in the '80’s (Well they had a LOT of fish, they thought they would rather keep for themselves)
For some of us, we foresee Huxleys “Soma” turning imperceptibly into Orwell’s “Big Brother”.
Just now there are a Lot of the countries of the EU who seem less optimistic and whose populations are voting ever more firmly for those who would leave. Some advocate “Reform from within”
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Well I wish those who wish to do so, all the best.
Sadly I think Orbison said it
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Maybe those who hate us - will get their wish - we’ll see !
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Reform from within is certainly a desirable and indeed necessary process if a community is to remain tuned in to an ever more rapidly changing world. There is nothing radical or new about that.
In the same way, and from the same process, the UK has made its choice and all that is left is to decide upon what basis it leaves. It has created a precedent and model that can be used in the future if other countries decide to do the same. But so far no other country has formally initiated such action despite an obvious period of deep introspection by all other members concerning their own role and suitability within the EU community.
It is a sign of a perfectly healthy structure that all opinions can be expressed and heard and that a system exists to consider all proposals. There are many major changes taking place amongst senior people of influence within the EU administration and that is also fine. The key issue though is that the institutions for decision-making are allowed to function as they are intended and that members adhere to decisions made.
On the whole that is still the case, although there are signs of stress on some edges such as the Italian approach to budget deficits. But a more optimistic view would be that testing the boundaries only serves to reinforce them - or identify necessary changes. EIther result is a sign of healthy development and response to changing needs.
The EU is unlikely to crack under the strain of some fixed, antiquated system - like some tree that fails to lean with the wind - that fails to recognise the need for evolution until it is too late and evolution becomes revolution - such as one could describe the situation in Hong Kong. But the process of change is not always a smooth and obvious direction and compromise is a serious necessity all the way.
I do not share your pessimism regarding these issues and see them as opportunities rather than threats. And I really think the populations of the EU have moved on a long way from the social waves of the 60’s - 80’s which were an era already some 40-60 years back. Woodstock was the USA as was Easy Rider. But even though White Rabbit is still one of my favourite songs, it certainly does not influence my observations of the EU today and even the iconic Peter Fonda is now history.
Things do change, its only whether we see them or not - and through which lenses.
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Farage, Borris, Mogg and all their right wing Tory brethren will not be missed from Europe.
They really don’t represent the majority of decent ‘British’ people and after the next election which Sir Kier Starmer and a reformed Labour Party will win by a landslide, Britain will re apply to join to community. That right wing rump in England will be banished by decent people, just like Trump and his white supremacists will be flushed down the drain of eternity where they belong with all the other sewer rats.
Are we buyng the “Dominion” Voting machines then ?
But in any case thank you for your valued and measured opinion ! 
Where’s the evidence that Starmer is reforming Labour, let alone that he could win an election?
Shucks man, there’s no need for evidence in here. Just read the balderdash in this thread and the Trump thread . Truth and evidence might be useful in a court of law but has no place on an internet forum.
In here, you just shoot the breeze and before you start printing, be aware that anybody with a splink of common sense wouldn’t be in here in the first place.
That includes me BTW.
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Mate there’s asking a LOT !
Like assuming the “over-educated idiots” - would actually know what “evidence” means - much less be able to understand what “evidence” they could muster which might just demonstrate their point of view 
Not a hope in hell !
He comes back with ;
Pretending to dismiss your valid and sensible questioning of his random statement as though your request was somehow beneath his dignity - when the reality is in fact much sadder - and simply is that he really does not understand - or even know how to understand your question !
I was watching this - this afternoon and he, together with the rest of teh Crayon Crew, just fit so well into those they are speaking of ;
They are being dumbed down so they will comply “happiliy” with their masters every word !
We just have to make sure our own kids and grand-kids get liberal doses of critical thinking skills at home and don’t go anywhere NEAR a “University” ! 
What about the temporary suspension of Corbyn from the party - cannot find a leader suspending his predecessor in history of the Labour party, but happy to be corrected on this.
What about the latest YouGov poll Late December -
The poll shows the Tories down two points at 37% while Labour is up from 37% to 41%, the first time a YouGov poll has shown support for Labour above the 40% mark since Sir Keir became leader in April.
(dailybusinessgroup uk)
He’ll have to get past his own party first !
But Mick. we’re talking about Starmer and Labour. You must have seen things which made you come to these conclusions because that’s what you posted. I’m only asking to hear from you what you saw that made you think so.
Hi falstaff, long time no see 
Just had a glance at the first few secs of the video and here is a wild guess - Camberwell ?
If so this same branch posted back in Nov a demand that Sir Keir reinstate the whip to Corbyn “immediately”.
Anyhow, I’m not into predicting as you know - but …he will be the next UK PM.
Your choice
TBH - Who cares about Labour ?
but you seem remarkably well informed for someone who doesn’t vote in UK elections.
Anyhow came across this ;
I guess my youth was more fun than this lot are havng .
And a spot of culture ;
Corbyn was suspended for about 10 minutes. So I guess Starmer set two records in one go - the first suspension of a preceding Labour leader, and the fastest reinstatement of a suspended member.
Labour and Conservatives are about neck and neck in the current Yougov voting intentions poll, which cannot be bad for Johnson, given that his divisive history, his inheritance of the May government, his stewardship of Brexit, his lockdown of the economy and his utter lack of policies.
The British always hate the British government. Elections are almost always lost by incumbent governments rather than won by opposition parties. After all, they are to blame.
On top of everything I despise his wearing the name Keir like a badge…
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Not 10 mins - 19 days suspended from the party - I posted about the whip being restored - that’s not down to the party to bestow - it’s in the hands of only two men.
Sir Keir got his two titles for a reason, the 1st he earned, the second his parents earned.
Edit: for guys not familiar with UK politics - the 2 guys are the chief whip and the party leader, the chief whip is chosen by the party leader.