Very fascinating idea Hog. It can be done quite simply actually. A demo MT4 account can be opened with a decent broker and then the user/pass can be shared with whoever is participating in this.
Right then, I’m in for that. I would reckon we would be looking for 6, max 8 people. If we can get the names of those who fancy taking part as quickly as possible, we can all find a platform and get used to it before kick off day, 1st January 2013.
So I’m in, max another 7 people required, first come first served as they say
I’m in also please.
Okey Hog,
Put me in the gang… I would like to participate… 
.
Hey hog,
Just wanted to thank you for your time sending those Cris Lori Videos. You didn’t need to do it but I am seriously glad you did!
Don’t underestimate the value of this thread guys. I have been fallowing it for a while and there is seriously some great information hidden in it… I guess what I am saying is before you are to hard on yourselves for wasting time bla bla bla bla… Look back at the start of the thread, then at some of your recent posts. I think you will find that although you aren’t where you want to be, you are a lot closer then when you started out…
Clear as mud? lol I hope so. Now, there is a point in time when you have to actually put in the chart time right? I mean, just fallowing forums and chatting with the good ol boys in the trader’s arm isn’t going to turn you into the next soros right? One way I keep motivated is by upping the ante. Add a little money to the account. Make that 1% that you are risking actually matter. I’m not saying bet the farm I am just saying adding a little value to the amount your risking can really sober you up and make you pay attention.
Anyway, just my to cents. I am seriously hoping you don’t close this thread though. I for one, enjoy it. :57:
I’m going to have to do this in 2 posts, it’s too long for one post believe it or not. There seems to be a 15,000 character limit on each post and I’ve exceeded it with this. I kid you not…
Part 1…
Tell me this, have you ever caught yourself reflecting on the path your life has taken? You suddenly realize you were a million miles away reflecting on the things that are going right, the things that are going wrong, the things that make you happy and the things that make you sad. Has that ever happened to you?
If it hasn’t, then I tip my hat to you, for you truly are a rare breed and you need not read the rest of this post. I’m envious of your inner peace and your youth.
For the rest of us though, this brief, sometimes sad, moment of reflection, seems to come along more often the older we get. And surely there must come a point, if you have the ability to be completely honest with yourself, when you can pinpoint exactly what IS going wrong in your life, you know what’s making you sad, you can see it, you know it, my God you can almost touch it.
So let me ask you another question then. If you know what’s making you unhappy, if you can see what it is that’s going wrong, what are you doing about it? ARE you doing anything about it? I mean, there’s a million and two excuses you can use to stop yourself doing anything about it isn’t there?
“I’m too old now…”----------”I don’t have the time…”--------“I don’t have the money…”
How many pages do you want to fill with those familiar excuses? But at the end of the day, every single reason you can think of, with the exception of your doctor pronouncing you officially dead, for NOT continually making the effort to change the things in your life that are making you unhappy, is no more than an EXCUSE, end of!
SimonTemplar recently made reference to the Eric Thomas video, more specifically he made reference to the part about success coming to those who wish it as bad as they wish to breathe. Sage words indeed, but let me draw your attention to another part of that same video, the part that deals with the whole point of this post…FOCUS.
Round about last Thursday night I was drifting through the Babypips threads when I stumbled into Nikitafx’s Pure Price Action For Dummies thread. I found this post and the conversation that it was part of and as you may remember, I quoted this in one of my posts.
I kid you not, as soon as I read the conversation this quote was part of I made my mind up to quit Babypips. Why? Well I’ll tell you.
I’m around 1 year and 8 months into Forex trading now, and where am I compared to where I started? Probably not much further forward to be honest, and I do mean that. I’m still pissing around with a micro account, still making the same basic errors I did over a year ago. In that respect, I truly am no further forward.
Time for one of those moments I thought. You look at what’s positive and what’s holding you back, you identify it, give it a name. And the name I gave it?..FOCUS, or to be more precise. A TOTAL AND UTTER LACK OF FOCUS.
You see, I decided that I actually knew enough to trade. I’m not saying for a second I’m a market expert or anything close to that, but I have, imho, a good enough grasp of Support and Resistance, a good enough grasp of the use of pivots and Fibs, and a good enough pair of eyes that can read an economic calendar, that I could trade. Not saying I would be a Soros, but I could trade. So where is the problem?
The problem is a lack of focus. I’m still breaking the “trade what you see, not what you think,” thing. I’m still entering trades way too early through impatience, still trading without a stop loss in place. As I said, still making very basic mistakes.
All of that will eventually lead you to ask yourself, “is this really for me?” Because if you can handle the theory, but can never get a grip on the psychology or the self discipline, then there is no coach, no mentor, no guru in the world that can help you. If you can’t conquer YOU, then it’s time you left the battlefield and just got out of the game entirely.
My apparent lack of focus though, surprises even me. It’s always been my …what’s the word…I’ve always tried my best in my threads to be as honest as I can possibly be. So with that in mind, and to help describe my own surprise at my lack of focus, let me be a little more honest than I probably should be.
Like most people, I hate my job. The hours I work take over my entire life. I won’t drag you all through my families medical history, but the hours I work, well, let’s just say I’d rather be at home to help out a little more.
There’s also the nature of my job, taxi driving. To most of you, getting a taxi home after a good night out is no big thing. To me though, every drunk person who staggers into my taxi of a weekend night could be a fight, an argument, a sicky, a runner or they may be the nicest person on the planet. I just don’t know which one you’re going to be and that moment, just as you open my taxi door, is a moment of great anticipation for a taxi driver. Driving a taxi takes an emotional toll believe it or not, just like trading. You may think you’re all great people, but trust me, with a few beers inside you, some of you ain’t!
I also have debt. I know we all have some debt or other, but I have…additional debt. Now to be completely honest, the debt has been self inflicted, again through a lack of focus, and it’s nothing I can’t work my way out of in time, but it’s there nevertheless, another stone around the neck.
So when you look at these points, you might wonder why such a person would EVER suffer from a lack of focus towards something (fx trading) that has the potential to change that situation, wouldn’t you? Yeah, me too. But so far, it hasn’t.
Part 2…
So this brings me to the issue of focus, and more specifically, the OTHER point in the Eric Thomas video I mentioned earlier. Now you have to remember when watching that video, that Mr Thomas was making that speech to class of teenagers, and teenagers have different ideas as to what is vital in life in comparison to us…people who aren’t teenagers LOL!
One of those vital things is a teenagers mobile phone (cell phone for our American cousins). I know how important this is to a teenager, I have a teenager, she’d rather give up a body part, maybe even a vital organ or two before she gave up her ‘only link to real people’. Her mother and I don’t get offended by that comment.
He told them:
[I]“If you give up your cell phone you will be successful, but your cell phone is more important to you than your success. I’m going to say it again, I’m going to hurt somebody. Some of you need to give up your cell phone because the time you’re spending on your cell phone could be used for your success. The time you could be using to be successful, you’re using on your cell phone and your cell phone ain’t bringing you nothing but a bill.”[/I]
The point?
The point is, how does ANYBODY become successful in life? How do they become successful in business, in sport, in science or in any other field you care to mention? How do they do that? Let me give you a hint just in case you’re struggling a little there.
Gary player, one of the most famous names in golf, (and incidentally the guy I was named after, and no, my first name isn’t Player) was once accused of being a very lucky guy when playing out of bunkers. His reply to that was, “Yes I am, and the more I practice, the luckier I get.”
People become successful through hard work and practice. When they have finished the hard work and the practice, they work harder and practice some more, that’s the only way it comes. Santa don’t gift wrap success. And to keep working hard, and to keep practicing your craft for the time needed in order to become successful requires an incredible level of focus.
For me, as I mentioned in a previous post, that’s the reason behind the 95% statistic that gets so readily thrown into the mix. Most people, just don’t give that level of focus. They don’t give it in work, they don’t give it in life and then they spend the rest of their miserable fu***** existences *****ing about how THEY didn’t make it big.
Now I’m not knocking them because I’ve been one of them so far, but it’s why we are where we are, no other reason.
So forget your desire to learn about indicators and moving averages and stars and planets and ribbons and bows and bells and whistles, none of it matters, I assure you. Because without focus, it all useless, it’s all c**p, it means nothing.
Don’t tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon may well be a great attitude, but without the proper focus, it don’t fu***ng matter my son because your arse ain’t getting off the ground in the first place.
So it’s focus, it’s all about the focus. Hell even I just had to re-read the very first post I made on this thread, and in particular the sentence in red, “Should I even be here at all?” I’m over a year and a half in and I’m asking myself that. That in itself has me wondering if this IS for me after all.
But that said, I’d hate to walk away, failed but knowing I never truly gave myself a chance in the first place. To lose knowing you never gave it the best shot you possibly must be the worse feeling ever. So I won’t do that. But if I do give it my best, and still fail, then fair enough, it didn’t work, I tried.
There are a couple of quotes I’d like to add at this point. The first one comes from a trader called Shirley Hudson. I don’t know how well known Shirley Hudson is or isn’t, but I lifted this part from an interview she did on youtube. I just thought it summed up the attitude required for this business:
[I]“Trading, for most of us, is a lonely job, and you need the support of a common group of people, focused in the same direction you are. Not trying to blog, not trying to take your time, not sitting there on skype having fun conversations, but paying attention to what’s important to feeding your mind and feeding your future success in this business.”[/I]
That quote alone, is what made me NOT quit this forum the other night if I’m honest, because if you’re going to learn, it helps if you’re surrounded by good people who also want to learn, which is what you lot surely are.
The second quote also deals with the people you chose to surround yourself with in your quest to become successful in any, or all, walks of life. It comes from that other well known philosopher, 50 cent. It has been censored ever so slightly for the purpose of this post.
[I]
“You know what my grand-father told me? You’ll get as far as the mother-fs you talk to for no reason. You’ll be as successful as the mother-fs you talk to for no reason. What I mean is, if your spending your day talking to some guy (not the word 50 used) who ain’t got nothing going on, what the fk kind of information can he offer you? Can he help you learn? Can he teach you something in the conversation? Get the fk outta here.”[/I]
My teenage daughter wants to go to University after school to study medicine. Even as a little girl she always wanted to become a doctor. To be fair to her, she’s worked so hard all through school, done well in her exams and now she’s in the final year when the important exams are looming next May.
Just in the last few months though, she’s started to lose a little of the focus and has started to notice most of the other kids her age who are going out on the town, going to parties, some of them are getting drunk but as is the nature of these things with kids that age, it all seems to get glamourised and made out to be the ‘cool’ thing to be doing.
A few weeks ago she asked me, “How come I don’t get to go to the parties or go out on the town?”
This is roughly what I told her.
[I]“Unfortunately, you don’t get to play that game, not yet anyway. The path you’ve chosen to take requires that you pay ALL of your attention to achieving the goal that you yourself set. Your mother or I never told you to become a doctor. We never held a gun to your head and told you that if you didn’t do it, the family would live a life of misery and it would be all your fault.
You made a free, conscious decision to take that path and you made that decision a long time ago. And I’m the first to admit to you that you’ve worked bloody hard for a long time. It couldn’t have been easy. It can’t be easy watching your friends doing the things they’re doing and never being part of it. It can’t be easy listening to them telling the tales of their weekends and the fun they had as you walk quietly back to the solitude of your bedroom to study again and again and again.
But that was, and still is, your choice and I’m the proudest guy in the world that you made it and had the strength to see it through as far as you have already. But you go talk to those other kids and ask them what their ambitions are and the highest ambition amongst them is your friend Heather who wants to be a hairdresser.
Now no offense to hairdressers, but when you take a group of 16 year old kids, a group of kids with their entire lives in front of them and that’s as high as any of them are aiming then something’s wrong. And I already know what kind of life awaits them because I’ve already lived it.
School meant nothing to me, I hated the place. But the reality of life is that at some point you have to pay for it. You either pay up front and sacrifice your early years by working hard on your education to secure a longer period of happiness, which is the rest of your life.
Or, you live it up when you’re young, blow off the education for the few quick years that is your youth and then pay for it the rest of your life. And be assured, you DO pay for it for the rest of your life.
Eeither way it’s your decision. But just remember this always. If you do decide to pack it all in now, and decide to go off and piss around with your mates, don’t ever blame anyone else for the path your life takes, because that too was your decision.
If you’re going to do something, something that requires hard work, then you need to be prepared to put the hard work in, regardless of what’s going on around you. Otherwise…you’d better learn how to do a bloody perm and highlights!"[/I]
Oh if I could only follow that advice myself eh??
So my problem has been, and still is, the focus and the discipline. It is not my intention to give up this thread but I’ve given myself until the end of March 2013, no particular reason for that specific date, just gives me 3 good months to show myself what I can or can’t do.
If by that time, nothing has improved regards my trading practices, then it will be time to move on, maybe teach trading LOL!!
AS for this thread between now and then, I may or may not frequent it as often, I truly don’t know yet. But what I do know is that when I am here, I’ll be here to talk, learn and focus on trading. I’m not saying we can’t have a giggle, what I’m saying is that I have a tendency to go off on a tangent sometimes for too long, that I have to change.
I won’t apologise for the length of this post, sometimes we all just need to howl at the moon to makes ourselves feel a bit better. Maybe just to re-focus a bit.
As for the “trading club” idea I’m still up for that if we can sort out quickly how we’re going to do it. I think we’re up to 3 members now so that could be promising.
Don’t know if I’ll be posting again this week, probably will mind you now that I have the mobile office up and going.
Anyway, that’s long enough for any post, if I think of chapter 2, I’ll put it on.
I will just add this though before I let y’all go. Eric Thomas sure knows how to make an inspirational video. Indeed, ST and I have both commented in conversation that we do like that sort of shot in the arm motivation. But recently I’m of a mind to look to a different source for inspiration to motivate myself to improve and learn as a trader, and I would urge you all to do the same.
Going back to the start of this mega post, if you do ever catch yourself in one of those “moments”, reflecting on what’s going wrong in your lives and what makes you unhappy, keep that image of whatever it is in your mind. Make it bigger, make the colours richer, make the noises louder and let the feeling of the pain it gives you hurt even more. Burn it into your brain like your branding a cow, burn it in there for all eternity.
And every time you think of giving up, you think of that thing, you re-focus and get up again and keep going. Be your own life coach.
Take care you lot, talk soon.
HoG
Hey HoG,
I’ve been reading through the thread and I agree with what you’re saying. I think discipline and focus are extremely important to all facets of life and if you want success you need to put in the hours.
I’ve just spent a year of my life losing money in forex whilst studying and working full time. Recently I was screwed over by the company I work for and this had me thinking about opportunities and wasted time. In economics, an opportunity cost is the loss of potential gain from other alternatives when one alternative is chosen. So I spent a year learning how to trade and read the markets which resulted in a loss of money. In that time the opportunity cost is that I could have focused more on Uni, my job or done nothing which would have resulted in a better financial gain than forex. However, I don’t see the past year as wasted time, but a lesson and a step towards financial success. Though, I need to stay focused, have discipline, and learn from past mistakes.
I like these quotes from Will Smith:
”I’ve never really viewed myself as particularly talented, where I excel is ridiculous, sickening work ethic. While the other guy is sleeping, I’m working. While the other guy is eating, I’m working.”
“The only thing that I see that is distinctly different about me is I’m not afraid to die on a treadmill. I will not be out-worked, period. You might have more talent than me, you might be smarter than me, you might be sexier than me, you might be all of those things you got it on me in nine categories. But if we get on the treadmill together, there’s two things: You’re getting off first, or I’m going to die. It’s really that simple, right?
You’re not going to out-work me. It’s such a simple, basic concept. The guy who is willing to hustle the most is going to be the guy that just gets that loose ball. The majority of people who aren’t getting the places they want or aren’t achieving the things that they want in this business is strictly based on hustle. It’s strictly based on being out-worked; it’s strictly based on missing crucial opportunities. I say all the time if you stay ready, you ain’t gotta get ready.”
So what am I going to do, I am going to put in the hours, have a schedule, and stay focused on the goal. I think few people are great or even good at anything without hard work. If I want to even come close than I need to put in the time, the most valuable commodity .
Bitters
Something else I’d like to throw in. Im sorry for the hijack 
but i really do think this is relevant and even more important. I once had a life changing experience. I had read about being addicted to caffeine and the lethargic effects of soda in January 2009. For three months I kept telling myself I was going to quit (after i finished the soda i was drinking or the pack i had just bought). So here it is April and I’m driving down the road drinking the best soda on Earth Barq’s root beer. And I’m thinking to myself “man I really need to quit drinking these this is going to be my last one”. And then it hits me Jaren you keep putting this off if you dont do it now you wont do it. So then and there on highway M I made the resolution not that this would be my last soda or last drink but that I had already had my last sip. I threw the rest out the window and just did it. Whatever it is you wanna do or dont wanna do never say “next week” or tomorrow or when i have more money. Just do it otherwise you wont ever. Also I’ve had a few beers so this might be a little more relevant in my head than it is :D.
Ok then, so we have decided that focus is the single most important factor if you want to be successful in any walk of life. It’s more important than the bells and whistles and badges of achievement, for without it there is no achievement.
Your first focus then should be centred squarely and firmly upon the [I][B]necessary[/B][/I] work needed to improve your education, knowledge and understanding of the task you have chosen to undertake, in our case currency trading.
I’ve highlighted the word “necessary” above just to point that there is a difference between the work that you NEED to put in, and the work which you pretend is productive, but in reality is just wasting time. I’ll give you an example.
Last week I drove past two women who were out jogging. I have to say they both looked fantastic, they had all the gear on. They both had the Aasics running shoes, the lycra running trousers, one wore an illuminous orange Nike running top while the other was equally as bright in a green top. One wore a headband and they both carried those water bottles that seem to be so popular with joggers today. As I said, they both looked great, a couple of serious joggers.
Only problems were though, they both looked…too great. They both wore long dangly earrings, they both were covered in make-up and they were both meandering alone the road having a great old chin-wag about her up the road and what she’s supposedly doing with him around the corner. Any slower and I swear to God they would have stopped completely.
So I’m watching them thinking, “What’s the fu***** point?” They’d be as well sitting in the kitchen with a cup of tea gossiping as spending all that money on running gear just to go for a stroll. But that IS the point. You need to be sure that the work you are putting in is productive or your just wasting time.
So again, that comes down to focus. What I suggest you do is write down, in black and white in front of your eyes so you can clearly see it, your road-map to education. Note down the things you need to learn, in the order you need to learn them and discard the things that may be fun to read or watch, but ultimately will give no added value to your quest. In other words, don’t waste time on the pointless stuff.
I have the Chris Lori DVD’s, there are the ICT video’s and I have a few books I’ve downloaded a while ago and promised myself I would read but never ever done it. Make sure though if you do start to read/watch something and decide it’s pointless, make sure you’ve decided that because it IS pointless, not just because you’re bored and want to go do something else.
HOG
Inspirational posts.
But I don’t understand what it is you are struggling with. Reading some of the posts in this thread it looks like you have been extremely focused in your studies. Your posts on candlesticks especially were very thorough and it shows that you put a lot of thought into it.
So where are you lacking focus? Maybe I missed something, but are you saying that you are not focused when taking your trades? Are you sure you are not being too hard on yourself? Sorry if I missed something obvious.
Like I alluded to in the post that equalled the bible in length piptronix, I don’t particularly see the theory side of trading as any great, all magical mystery. At the end of the day, the price of any currency pair can only do one of two things.
It can either move in one direction, take a breather and then continue to move in that direction. Or it can move one way and then turn and move in the opposite direction. That is a simple, basic fact.
Now you can have mentors, gurus, teachers, whatever you want to call them, who can show you the subtle signs the market gives out the indicate, or may indicate, the likelyhood of the market moving in a certain direction based on what it has just done, or what it has been doing recently. Some of these teachers are good, some of them are charlatans.
But it doesn’t matter how good or bad a teacher or mentor is because the very first thing you need to be in control of in this business is yourself. You can have all the understanding of the theory in the world, but if you don’t have the self discipline you’re…well, let’s just say it ends in ‘…ked’.
Let me ask you this, what is the purpose behind using a stop loss? It’s primarily to protect your equity right? But it’s also an admission that you were wrong. If price moves against you, then for whatever reason, your trade idea was wrong, you made an acceptable loss, you move on.
But the reason some people, myself included, have traded without using a stop loss, is that they either refuse to accept that they are wrong, or that they are consumed with the false hope that if they leave the position open long enough then price will come back to them. Well we all know how that one usually ends.
Impatience is another devil in disguise. It’s not greed, it’s impatience that kills. You know the market is going to move down, you’re convinced of it, so why not just sell now rather than waste time waiting 'til price gets up to resistance?? Trouble is, when you do make that call and price moves up to resistance and just decides to blow straight through that resistance, AND you have no stop in place, your backside is in trouble, and so is your balance.
So you’re right, I have a reasonable grasp of what I need to be able to trade. By no means an expert, but I have a reasonable grasp. But my battle isn’t with the theory, it is, and always has been, with the discipline.
I personally believe, and I may well be wrong, but I believe that in this business you CAN be a little flawed in the theory, you CAN be a little out in your understanding and still make it through, as long as the proper precautions are put in place from the outset.
But if you have ANY chink in the armour of the discipline, if your proper and safe parctices have ANY flaws, they WILL be found out at some point, it’s just a matter of time.
It’s like death in a way. I laugh when I hear people say that they, or someone they know, “cheated death” doing some crazy stunt. Death is the ultimate practitioner of patience. Death doesn’t HAVE to take you today, tomorrow or even next week. It’s enough for death to know that he WILL take you at some point, it’s all a matter of patience. No-one cheats death forever.
Excellent Posts HoG,
Your last few Posts are More Spiritual contented… What’s going on mate? Might be you are in a transition. Very inspiring words. I’m going through the same situation you said the previous posts.
.
Dunno mate, nothing spiritual was intended LOl.
As for the transition, I really hope I am. A lot of things in my job actually make me feel physically sick, it’s hard to describe. Yet what am I doing about it to change it? Nothing at all, except moaning constantly about it, and where does that get anyone?
So yeah, I hope this is the beginning of my transition. I know that trading has the potential to change the way I live, I know it won’t change it today, tomorrow, it probably won’t even change things too much next year. But as long as I know that it IS there, that it IS achievable, as long as I’m prepared to work for it, then there is hope.
As Christopher Reeves once said, “Once you chose hope, anything’s possible.”
Hog I’ve been through a lot of the things you describe and still do but rarely. One thing I will mention is I feel we’re more likely to succeed as traders if we’re mechanical in how we action our trading. ST is a great example of this. For the past few months I’ve kept telling myself stop bringing emotion/fear/greed into trading.
Emotion - “OMG I’m going to miss this move I’m going to get in now” when there was no clear entry or you should have got in 30 pips+ ago.
Fear - “I’m up 10 pips but price is coming back a bit hmmm let me lock break even”
Greed - “Let me extend my stop loss by another 10 pips I don’t think price will come get me that far”
Once you have rules to how you trade then the next important step in my opinion is the consistent implementation of those rules without deviation. For example I will not enter a trade anymore unless I can see a potential return of double/triple my risk. If its 1:1 I will pass ALWAYS. I’m not saying its wrong to take such a trade but its my rule and I stick to it. Secondly I always set limit orders at determined levels once I’m in a trade which will scale me out of a position and I never adjust these levels once I’ve set them just like I never move my stop anymore. I feel that its in our human nature to f*ck things up/get confused/get scared etc so we should limit our involvement once the trigger has been pulled to enter a trade.
I’m banging on a bit here now lol but the point I’m trying to get across is if the way you trade is profitable then you just need to stick to a good plan no matter what. Losses will come as we can’t win them all but be confident that at the end of the week or month or year even you’re going to be in profit and thats all that matters. The long term gain.
*Sorry for the TYPO’S if any I’m on a caffeine high at the moment lol
Hi HOG
While I can relate to most of what you are saying, we part ways when it comes to setting a stop loss.
I have managed to conquer a few discipline issues, but some still plague me and I accept that they always will. Like impatience, I know it will always be there, so instead of fighting it, I either set a pending order and walk away, or just walk away. The best thing is to be away from the computer, and that’s why I stopped using the iphone to trade. I used to overtrade, so now I limit myself to trading New York only, I’ll miss opportunities I know, but if I can’t trust myself not to overtrade, then I’ll remove the tools from my reach.
But when it comes to setting a stop loss, for me that is not even an option, and seems very strange to me. I have heard that some pros never use stop losses, like that guy who came on here and insulted the entire babypips community within about 20 hours -then got banned. (HeadsIWin, anyone remember that classy act?). Anyway, I know that (some)experienced traders do it, but man, it’s a foreign concept to me.
But I still don’t think focus and discipline have anything to do with not setting a stop loss. That’s more of a conceptual thing. It can work …if your’e right lol
Good luck
The stop loss thing I agree is open to individual preference, I’ve even heard Nikitafx say she trades without one, but has the mental strength to cut and run if things go against her.
trading without a stop loss can work for you, if you’re right. But trading without one, then finding out you’re wrong and THEN finding out you don’t have the mental strength to cut and run can be a costly business.
Works for some who can deal with imaginary stop loss levels. I prefer to ask myself the question ok if price goes against me where would I want to get out. What level tells me I was wrong and thats where I set my stop loss. If I get kicked out and price goes where I thought it would then my stop was obviously too tight and my analysis was correct. This can be improved over time IMO.
I’m suddenly a little out of date on this thread, behind the curve, but there’s some big stuff being discussed. I’m normally a rambler, but I’ll keep this one short, as it’s simple.
We each of us need to ask ourselves: is this work, or a hobby? Am I trying to make a little useful extra coin, or am I trying to make some money?
There is no right or wrong answer, but there does need to be an honest answer. Anyone not treating this as work is never going to achieve a step change in their finances, never going to move their life into another bracket. They’re just going to have the odd nice win, the odd war story, and have some fun with it. There’s nothing wrong with that, but it is not taking it seriously, so it is not going to become more than that.
If we want to make this into something big, then it has to become work, given an equal footing with other businesses, jobs, bosses etc., encroaching into our sleep, hobbies, all of that, if necessary.
So we all need to decide, is this work, or a hobby? For me, it’s work. For anyone else who considers this work, I’d recommend the opening three or four minutes of this video.
If you don’t set a Stop Loss and then something happens to you - child gets hurt, gas leak, you fall and break your leg - your trading account might get wiped out, too.
I always place a Stop, I just make sure that it is at a level where, if Price reaches there, I know that the underlying thinking behind my trade has not played out and I want my money out of there.
Sorry to be in preachy mode, guys, but this can’t all be play and it feels as though we’re having a moment here in this thread. So let’s have a [I]m[I]oment[/I].[/I]
ST
Well said that man. And it’s funny you should make your post when you did, because the point of this post actually centres around you.
Now I know that all of this chatter of mine may seem to fly in the face of my recent posts about focus, ie why spend so much time posting when you could be trading? but I have no intention of trading this week, or what’s left of it. Nor do I intend doing anything trading related, except finishing my last couple of points on this forum then starting fresh Sunday night. So I may as well use the time to Re-re-establish my foundations.
The first larger posts dealt with focus, or the lack of, and now gives me my first and most important rule :
- Focus or Fold, all in or not in at all.
The second post dealt with discipline. Trading for some, without a clearly defined set of rules, may work, as I said, for some. But in keeping with the old advice to find out what kind of trader you are, I’m 20 months into this, I now know what kind of trader I am, and the trouble I get myself into WITHOUT a clearly defined set of rules. Each to their own I suppose, but this is rule No 2 for me.
2, Set your rules down on paper, these are the rules by which you will live your trading life. There will be no detours…ever !!
And the part which centres around ST???
ST has a well known battle cry now. “Trade what you see, NOT what you think.” It’s difficult really to find a fault in that advice. It’s simple, it’s basic and it’s just plain logical. In fact, the only thing that is wrong with it is trying to get people to stick to it. I mean, in what other part of your life, honestly, would you NOT follow that advice.
Let me put another different slant on it for just a second, just to try and illustrate the point.
By some bizarre twist of fate, you and your best mate happen to be flying over the South pole, when your aircraft developes engine problems. Your gonna have to make an emergency landing. You send out a may-day call, then brace yourselves for impact. Luckily, you both survive the crash, but now you’re both faced with a different problem, you’re stranded, geographically, slap bang right in the middle of the South pole.
It’s freezing, it’s the middle of winter and the the wind drives the snow at you both like some-ones firing bullets at you. You would’ve taken shelter in the wreckage of the aircraft, but that exploded shortly after impact and is under 10 feet of snow now anyway. It’s minus 6 bazillion and you’re both huddled there like the last two emperor penguins on earth. The weather is so wild that visibility is almost zero. You’re both in a desperate situation.
You know that if you’re going to survive this, you’re gonna have to hunker down, preserve body heat, keep yourself warm, somehow. Suddenly though, your mate gets to his feet, he looks up at the two inches he can see in front of his eyes, then begins to strip. You can’t believe what your seeing, has he gone mad?
In no time at all, he stands there in front of you wearing only his speedos. His skin is going blue in front of your eyes and his body begins to shake. He’s fu***** lost it, surely? The snow is beginning to settle on him as he quickly gets bluer and bluer. Then you meet each others gaze and he can tell by the look of shock on your face that you think he’s mad.
He holds his hands out in front of him and shouts to you through the howling wind, “Has to brighten up sometime!” And with that he starts to walk off into the blizzard, never to be seen again.
Some time later, you burst out of the snow pile that has formed around you as the distant sound of a helicopter wakes you. You don’t see it at first because the glare of the sun on that cold clear morning obscures it, but you wave frantically nevertheless.
The helicopter lands and one of the crew runs towards you. “I thought there was two of you,” he says, “Where’s your friend?” You spin around and only then do you notice that although it’s still cold, it’s a calm, clear day and the sun is high in the sky, but your friend is nowhere to be seen.
“He left yesterday,” you tell the airman, “On a hunch.”
Okay, okay, a bit corny, but trust me, I have no desire to see any of you lot in your speedos. Deal with what IS happening, not with what you THINK is going to happen.
I still think ST’s version is simpler though LOL!! But it is rule number 3:
- Trade what you see, not what you think
It’s just a pity it took me so long to see it.