The VIPER Couch

                                 The Internet Of Things
                                            or

"A dog does not smile, no matter how many times your kind might think it does."
Observer

No really, dogs don’t smile. In talking to some friends over the past few weeks I found out that many of them ACTUALLY think the dogs do smile, and there is no way to reason with them that dogs do not smile. So what does this have to do with trading?? Well dear reader, in a psychological sense everything.

It has to do with what we are willing to convince ourselves of to make ourselves feel better about our circumstances and condition. No where does this play out in a more obvious fashion than on internet trading boards. Some are so dissatisfied with their lives that they invent online personalities, traders who have had massive amounts of success, who claim to know how Spot Currency Markets markets work from the inside out, they know what the market will do at any point in Price/Time.

A few moths ago an acquaintance told me of a trading Guru that was now claiming divine intervention in his life, that “God” answered his prayers to be successful so that he could help others be successful, yep you can’t make this stuff up. My first question would be which god, the god of the bible, the god of Islam, the god of the Buddhists, or perhaps it was Shree Ganesh, the Hindu god of good luck, or maybe it was the god of destroyed retail FOREX accounts. I don’t know which one, but in reality, once a person sees this type of behavior from someone claiming to be a cool-headed professional trader, they should run for the exits.

The same is true when you hear “Wyckoff used volume this way, but since Spot Currency does not have true volume numbers, I use it in a totally different way”. Stop and think, it was designed to be used with “real” volume numbers and it can not work without them, it is very simple. Or how about this, “enter here and take what the market gives you”, “set appropriate stops”. Ok, now what is this fool talking about, excuse me, Mcfly, anyone home, could you be more vague? The answer is usually Ad Hominem attacks are the last resort of etc etc etc etc.

Along with the invented personality, come sock puppets. I think out of all of the things I don’t like about Boards are Sock Puppets. For example, this experience. A guy said he was working on an oil rig site in Edmonton and the work was hard long hours, etc. and he wanted to get involved with Spot C trading to get out of such a demanding job. I can relate kinda sorta to this, so after seeing him “struggle” for a while, I sent him a PM to see if I could help, well his response was, shall we say, less that cordial, and in line with the Gurus “Iambic Pentameter”. So I said “Bonne Chance Mon Ami”. I realized he was a sock puppet. I believe that we still have one of this Gurus smelly socks around here still, and hopefully, one day, Site Overlords will take the laundry out, hehehehehehe. But anyway, it is very frustrating for someone serious to try to post through these “socks”, the voice of reason is always drown out by the “Guru” in different incarnations.

Finally we come down to the followers, or as some of the youts (sp NJ) say “Fanboys”. People today are so starved for leadership that they get attached to a personality that they think has their best interests in mind, and from that point on, there is no questioning of the Guru allowed. It does get worse, it gets to the point where legitimate questions are rejected off hand, not just by the Guru himself, or the obvious Socks, but also by the unwary followers. They begin to form a circle of protection around the Guru that Kim Jong Un would be jealous of, even after the Guru blows up, and is completely unmasked as a fraud, they continue to support him. Even when he performs the same act 5-6 times in a row, they never stop to ask, is that dog really smiling ? Why do they do this, my theory is because they have to believe that dogs smile, it is the basis for their future growth, as a person and financially, every bit of emotion they have is put into this Guru and his teachings, and no amount of reasoning will change that.

Understand also, that these followers are so caught up in being part of a “team”, “movement” or “tribe”, that they have to believe in the Guru, because if not, that means they are wrong, and this conclusion IS unacceptable. It would mean all the time and money they spent, was wasted, if the Guru failed, and his system failed then the follower failed. This emotional dependence on the Guru is so bad that even when the system and Guru fail, the follower blames themselves, they feel incapable of being able to trade the Guru’s lofty, holy, heavenly system, and they are too unclean to grasp the Gurus holy utterances. Accepting that they cannot trade the Gurus system is more acceptable to them than to just admit the Guru and his system is just wrong.

The reason for this is they need to believe that “Dogs Smile”. They need to think there is someone out there who has a secret knowledge of the markets, that will confirm their suspicions that the big boys are out to take their micro accounts from them and the Guru will ensure that this does not happen. The Guru becomes more than “sum dum gai” like me on the internet, he becomes a strong Father or Big Brother figure, who will chastise when needed, but will always be there to protect the little trading family.

Yes keep believing dogs smile dear reader, keep trying to convince yourself, keep trying to make yourself feel better about your life, that the Guru is right, and even if you can’t trade his system you know two things, he can and Dogs Smile. You are easily “READ”, whenever you respond to criticism or a thoughtful question of the Guru, you let everyone know how dependent you are. Yes keep thinking Dogs Smile, I would like to invite you to a specific hub of liquidity I know of, and seeing as I would like to purchase a personalized Porsche Panamera Turbo S Executive, Carmine Red, next year, a few extra bucks might just put me over the top.

The Ever TradeViper And Not TradePanamera VIPER

“You Don’t Even Know What You Don’t Know, So How Can You Know Anything”

Observer

6 Likes

Your last post just reminded me of a joke. No offence to anyone who is a devoted Christian.

Here i go ,

" What brand of Shampoo does Jesus use? "

I will post the answer next day.

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjLnuzI-ufVAhWQNoEKHfWeCoYYABAIGgJ5dw&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAESEeD2FLHVdT18UvuWineCGVo0&sig=AOD64_0jPYqMj_tacGmAlSLhqiIGo-mqqg&ctype=5&q=&ved=0ahUKEwjPoePI-ufVAhUHeCYKHWySCcgQvhcINw&adurl=

Now that’s just plain cheating, Malaysia, Malaysia, what the Crotalus does a RedNeck like myself know about Malaysian shampoo hehehehehehehehehe :smile:

The Never Having Dandruff Because I Shed My Skin VIPER

Man , you are the sage of the baby pips.
The sagacious viper

1 Like

nice posts. nice and entertaining storries. nice to see someome is adressing the psychology behind trading on babypips.

it took some of us 10 to 20 or more years :expressionless:

I couldnt as I #1 preserve my capital (like Viper :P)
I dont overleverage
I dont put that much risk on
I have a large account
I open trades in the right LONG TERM direction
I am fearless and have nerves of steel.
you can only think one thought at a time make it the right one!

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And the earth does not spin, no matter who imagines that it does.

And we all know there is only one way to measure a Guru: by his live trading account :slight_smile:

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Hey R, if I take on a new client, the first thing they want to see is a prospectus, no one comes in and says “Hey VIPER here is 250k I trust you can trade, I don’t need no stinking prospectus”!

But in Guru world, no proof needed, only “Testimonials”, and IF someone asks for proof, they say, “Hey I don’t have to prove anything to you, or anyone else”. Which is ok if it is free, but once they start charging, people are so attached to the “Dream” and the Personality, they go along without questioning.

Also don’t get me started with the sock puppets, and the fake “Testimonials” etc. I don’t mind someone trying to make a buck, and doing it in a basically unregulated environment, but when they start with the “Smelly Socks”, and mysterious floating fibbo, well it gets to be too much.

We had a long term trader posting here for a while, and as it does, the market shifted leaving this person not looking so good. His “system” worked in a heavy trend, but with out that he was chopped to pieces. The inability to adjust and adapt is one of the greatest shortcomings of all traders, what worked last month, may not work next month. Also this person was kind of guru esque, so he dragged some with him, it’s too bad to, if he would have just either stayed out or adjusted, he would have been a real Wiener.

The Ever Observing VIPER

3 Likes

all very wise words indeed! AND know that when a dog gets some smelly socks he smiles! just not so you can see!

I had to share all data from several trading accounts before I got my first 250K live funded account :wink:
and here is something else, when you trade someone elses $, read the contract very carefully! as mine says that if I violate the risk rules set by the fund owner, intentionally or deliberately then they expect me to pay them back for all losses of their monies! no troubles I always remain 100% responsible and accountable for my trades.

There is no system! you need a large collection of trading tools and skills and be able to adapt on the flying to rapidly changing HIGHLY violent markets. Trading is 89% psychology is the sad fact and as you say, if you brain aint right dont trade! because we all know that traing in a messy mental state results in much higher risk!

I guess a guru really has to be both! a great trader and a great teacher. We still tease Mikey on twitter, I dunno why, I guess its fun! because he is so holy! Mikey would have you to believe he can trade live in his demo account, and teach you to trade in your live account, while he trades demo! the jury is still out on this!

Demo trading and live trading while mechanically the same, are two totally different animals! one is a cat and the other is a dog!

1 Like

Bro, hope I’m not being rude, but if I had access to this sort of funds I don’t think I would be using mt4/5. Why, do you feel, does this platform perform?

Hey _bob, good question, I never understood the mt whatever allure, I know you can do some Quant and Robo trading, but OANDA has an agreement with Quant Connect that is Python based, and most of the better brokers in the US have APIs that are Python compatible, and for volume you get good discounts, I don’t know how many brokers have volume rebates for MT accounts, Hey RR any specific reason for sticking with MT?

Also I have embarked on the adventure of learning Python, and at 60, it is a challenge, but since my Chinese IT guy decided to embark on a new life venture a few years ago, it left me bereft of an auto dealio that would work with current conditions. It takes me quite some time to trust somebody so replacing him, well, may never be feasible.

The Ever A Little Snake In A Yuuuuuuuuuge Forest VIPER

3 Likes

Well none of the live accounts I traded for someone else were ever us based.
Oanda would be the last place I would ever trade live, I still have a demo account there to remind me of their inherent sillyness. I guess I have been trading a long time and learned mt4 ages ago, yeah it has its issues, but almost never crashes. mt5 is way better, as its multithreaded, but even thats still awkward for me. Things about mt5 though, the DOM is way better, you can see the spread and place trades inside it! and nothing excites me more than placing inside bid quotes & inside ask quotes as if I was the LP. It’s also quite nice to see the vol of orders pending in the DOM, so that allows you to see some walls (but I already know where they all are :P). As to the rebates, they would be great, the account holder is probably getting them.

As to why I dont take my 30% commissions and trade my own accounts thats another matter, altogether.

What do you need in the line of Chinese coder? I may be able to hook you up.

                                 Mr Market
		                    or
                        What Does A Corvette Have To Do With Trading 

Wayyyy back in 1978, I had a job at an independant auto repair shop. There was a weird customer that owned a Corvette, we will call him Corvette Guy, or CG for short. His car was about a 1969, and was no award winner by any means, he put a midrange paint job on it, eventually showed up at the shop to show us the new Targa Top he had put on, talk about cheesy, but he though he was a chick magnet in the car, actually more like maggot, but that’s another story. Anywho he jumps back in his whip, and goes to start it, and it turns but does not fire, Mike W. knows what I mean, he tries again, and gets a backfire, he tries one more time, pumping the gas pedal like a madman, and cursing. Finally he stops trying to crank it and starts pounding the steering wheel shouting, "I treaded you like a Brother, you
____________________________, every time you let me down, I even bought you a targa band and this is how you do you me _________________________________. So the boss come out, and then CG starts in with him, but not how you think, he gets out of the car, slams the door and says, can you believe this piece of ________________ I paid $800 two weeks ago for new brakes, I gave it a Targa band, I treat it like a brother and this is what it does to me, then he kicks it. The boss finally calmed him down, he left the car and we fixed it.

Then there was our next door neighbor. This is also years ago. She had some potted plants, and the dog kept digging in them, so one day I hear some screaming, man I thought someone was being killed, but no it was my neighbor screaming at the top of her lungs, to the dog, “Please can you just leave me one plant, please, just this one, please for the love of ___, all I want is one plant for me”. Well I didn’t say anything but I know that dogs don’t smile, so he did not understand a word she said. I guess that’s why some Atheists have a “In Dog I Trust” on a bumper sticker.

Soooo, many years later I got compt to a “TradeAlong” with a famous Guru. He had a few of guest speakers, I was really looking forward to hearing what the “Trading Psychologists” had to say. Now understand these were famous people, well known, even till today you can see their names bandied about.

So the big moment arrives, and the first TPsy gets up there and says, with a straight face, “Are you going to let Mr Market take your money from you today?” when no answer was forthcoming, she asked “well are you” most spoke up with a half hearted “no”. Frankly I had to put my head down and cover my mouth, I was laughing so hard. So I listen to a half hour of the worst load of drivel I have heard up till that time. About how the market is out to take your money, and how you have to fight it, on it went, and when we were finished, well mercifully, we were finished.

Believe it or not, the TPsy reminded me of the CG, and My Next Door Neighbor, both shouting and screaming at something that does not understand, and is even an inanimate object. This is called Anthropomorphism : an interpretation of what is not human or personal in terms of human or personal characteristics:, yeah I know all of us Dog lovers think that Tristan and Arminius our two Dobies smile at us, but they don’t. I know about the “Satanic Car” that hates us because stuff keeps breaking on it, but really it is just a piece of junk. I also know about the repeated entries, Ahem, cough, cough, that keep loosing because my broker is out to get me and so is Draghi, but you are just entering the wrong direction because you have a directional bias and you are too proud to adapt.

A famous Guru by the name of I Can’t Trade used to play this stupid card all the time. “The Smart Money” is after you, the “BIG” players know where your stops are, “The Institutional Levels” are there to take your money away from you, etc. By the time you get done with this nonsense you end up thinking that your Broker is hiding under your bed with the dust bunnies, and George Soros is hiding in your closet, shaking the loose change out of your pants and going through your couch crevices finding your lost millions.

Think about this. If you see the market as an entity, and YOU place a negative trade who do you blame, the market of course, but you also feel guilt for giving the bully your lunch money, then this bully gets even more terrible, and you end up finding a guru to protect you. We can see how quickly we shift from trading into survival mode, and of course I Can’t Trade, and his ilk try to convince people they need a group, a family to protect them from this bully, it is a perfect circle of dependence, the individual is taught that the Bully is out to get them, so they pay I Can’t Trade to protect them, all the while the Guru is charging to reinforce the fears of his followers, what a gig. It is clear that the anger is never addressed, and by making the market a living being, it becomes the target for the traders anger, making the situation even worse, what these gurus realize is that it does not help to blame the market, but it does help make traders dependent.

So how to avoid this trap, it is simple, the market does not care about you. It’s like a chainsaw, I love my Stihl by the way, you start it, it could care less what you put in front of it, a big Maple log you are cutting a LongRifle stock out of, or trimming some boxwoods, or your left leg, if you put it out there it will cut it. Or a Oster blender, you know the one with the heavy glass container, put 20 really hot Jalapenos, couple of onions, 4 tomatillos, a little salt, and finally 8 home grown Chile Cascabels, turn it on and in a few minutes, Salsa De Macho, of course if the Jalapenos don’t go all the way down, and you use your fingers to push them down, well the blender doesn’t care, it will make finger salsa just as well.

This is the point, no matter what anyone says, the market just does not care about you, win, lose, breakeven, “it” is not even aware that you exist, because “it” does not exist at a conscious level, a market just is. The moment we attribute a malevolence or benevolence to an inanimate object, the mental battle is lost, why? Because it is irrational thinking, it makes no sense at all. So how can someone make logical/rational decisions if they are already irrational.

So stop engaging in Anthropomorphism in your daily life, cept for dogs, I’ll give you that, but everything else, stop it, especially the markets, remember they just are, and your broker is not hiding under your bed.

The Ever Seeing It As It Is VIPER

7 Likes

I beg to differ. There are mostly two types of movements Up or Down. Sideways in lower TFs is also up or Down at least during London or NY sessions. It is only on rare occasions like good friday when mkt is sideways even on 5M.

I think you’re splitting hairs with the quantity of each market type as delineated by the word “mostly” which actually means"not just"

A sideways market on a daily chart would simply have a larger ATR than a trending market, up or down, on a much lower time frame.

in other words you may find an up and down trend on a much lower time frame within sideways market on a daily chart. Range bound.

KC

wow writing that educates many people. I support your writing and I wait for the next article.