True PA trading using MA's for S/R

iForex
Member Member Since Jul 2009
40 Posts

need some advise


Hi, EO, KEN and all
A very happy new year to all of you !
I read and study this thread for a few weeks, I believe this is a very good trading method, I started trading using this method, but unfortunitily my first 2 trading failed. maybe it was because this week is the worst trading week, maybe I have not understood the method. I have some questions, if any of you got time from your busy schedule, please give some advise.

  1. 1 or 5 o’clock trading, where is better entry point? like when the price touch 5ema or 10 ema or 21ema? or…?
  2. When we try to trade 1 or 5 o’clock in 15m, normally at the same time 1h will form a long wick candle or something like hammer…, any suggestion for this kind or trading?
  3. I attached a picture regarding my first 1h62ema trading, can you please give me any advise or suggestion?


Hi, Ken
Thanks for your excellent analysis.
I still do not understand why we can not go long when the price touch 1h62ema (according the method provided by this thread)? or we can go long with tight SL, but we can only get 10+ pips if lucky.
Thanks and Happy new year


Here is a great 1:00 trade


Dear Ken,

When we plot a fib on a 1 hr chart .The 62 Ema is the area of 38.2 retracement.besides there was a doji candle formed near 62 EMA. It was also an area of PPA (resistance)I think. Wat made u sure to take the 1’0 clock trade… Please correct me if Im wrong.

do you have a chart ? for the 62 ema.

We had ppa line (it is on the chart ) The close of the previous green candle was above where I have a resistance line… But there is always a risk associated with any trade. you could wait for the inveted star to close but then you might think short signal. But it also closed above that resistance line. The 1 oclock trades are touch trades taken off the line sometimes you have to take them and the line isn’t there as being the 5 ema it moves fast and can be moving away from you as your trying to touch it.

Need more clarification let me know ken

if your talikng about the current 62 ema. That 1:00 oclock trade was very near that 62 ema. could have been considered a try for a reversal. But being end of year accounts being adjusted makes some rules harder to workout. Why if your trading this week keep your stops handy ( close ). But yes that f62 eam was between the 38 and 50 fib and in most case would have been a good spot to enter. my fib would be from 1.0672 to 1.5832

Hi Ken,
Please see the chart attached,I was confused because of the wick of the candle from the previous PPA area. I am also not sure Im drawing my PPA Line correctly . Do u consider the wick of those candles ? . Also I have read from FF forum that EO says"sometimes price can turn 10-15 pips before 62 ema at times. Also about fib what is the reason u ignored the fib? Is it because price has stalled a bit in todays asian session forming a range ? Anyway I didnt take this trade since it was after the news.


Yes drawing lines gets easier. If you used a porgram for MT4 or any other atumated S/R drawing tool it will average the prices out to get you your line. I like drawing my own that way you can see why they are being drawn and sometimes get a better feel for the areas. I usually don’t figure a rouge wick into my lines that much as we have a nice shelf right beside that wick. I believe what may happen is price takes off like a rocket and it takes a minute for people to react why we get some long wicks at times especially counter trend and others are scrambling to get out.

yes you will find a lot of times that the 62 ema doen’t get hit. Same with a 35/50 cross reversal trade.the entry is suppose to be afte the candle close on that one . But the price doesn’t always wait for the close and starts back earlier. So you have to keep on your toes.

I didn’t ignore it it just didn’t work. The price pulled back to the 5 ema took off north and never stopped at the 62 and next candle continued north. Plus there was some news right about then.

The main focus of the post was to show what a 1:00 oclock trade looks like normally the 62 ema and 200 sma might not be sitting right there.

Thanks Ken …that helped a LOT

Hi Ken,
I am a new trader and was reading through ur pdf and thread. thanks a lot for helping out. I have a simple question when reading through your explanations. what do u mean by “taking trades away from the MA”. I cant understand that phrase. please explain as i having difficulty in understanding what is it. I have attached a file. by trading away from MA do u mean that we trade the portion where i have marked in red. ie after seeing any reversal candle we short til it touches MA. thanks a lot for ur help.


One of the biggest losses that new traders make. Is when they try and turn price back. The see price going up and they think I will take a short when it turns but they really don’t have a plan in place to do this and take lose after lose.

So for new traders the simple practice of trading away from the Major MA’s . Will in most cases get into trades with the trend (the direction the price is moving ) The major ma’s are the 35/50 on the 15 Min. the 50/62 ema on the 1 Hr. and the 50 on the 4 hr. So look for entries based off the signals to enter the trades.

The reversals happen at the extremes of the swings away from the MA’s and we take profit and adjust the trades at the ma’s moving towards the major ma’s but price can turn at anyone of them. So for begiiners away is best and easyest.

hope that explians that if not let me know… Happy New Year Ken :slight_smile:


ohhhh…okiee… now i got wht u mean… the attached chart made me understand… thanks ken… will disturb u with more doubts as i progress in my levels of trading…:slight_smile:

happy new year to u too…!!!

Happy New Years


Where are the greatest losses from?
The first thing to become a great trader is to limit losses. That is more important than giant gains the giant gains should come as long as we don’t have big losses. Our confidence will grow and we will begin to leave our good trades open longer because we know that we are in right. Then a slow shift to managing our trades will put us right up there with EO , Infinty and Pippinole.

But until we can start making the right choices about trades we are spinning our wheels. We maybe making enough to live on but are we really at the level we want to be? I am not. I know the above is true because in my own trading when I use patience and wait for the right entries and do that time after time my trades become easier and I start to have bigger gains but make a big screw up and bam it is like I just started trading yesterday and then you have to build the confidence back up again.

The thing that keeps me going is the fact that I know what I do wrong on really bad trades and I do learn from them. It may take me once or twice but not much more than that anymore to learn to stop doing whatever it is. So I know with some time I will go through all the bad options and only be left with the right way… LOL

If your not to that point where you realize it is your fault when you mess up big you may have a ways to go. The market itself is never right or wrong it is what it is. Now I am not saying you get stopped from time to time that is going to happen I am saying you do something that really hurts your account. Like 10 or even 20 % That is massive but it does happen. Even a scalper should be able to make up a single loss in 2 or 3 trades and that is big. A regular trader one win should wipe out 3 losses or more. If your a swing trader and you have to win 2or 3 trades to wipe out a loss something is wrong. I was reading another thread . Guy had a 100 pip stop and a 50 pip TP. Seems backwards.

So instead of making the bad trades we will not do that anymore. easy said right. But you see it here time after time and also in every thread almost. The mass majority of people are up and down. They do well then do real bad and this yoyo effect continues until they like me work through all the issues or give it up and go do something else. So we have a fresh year to make a new start and folow the rules we should all know by heart now. But do we and do we follow them. With the issues I have I would have to say probablly not.

Anyway this post was to be about losses to get them out of the way. I don’t talk much about losses or post charts showing them as it could be the one thing to stick in your head and when you see it think Ahh a great setup and boom failure. But having been trading a while myself and talking to other traders there are some common failures that happen.

  1. Entering to soon after a breakout then geting stopped on a retest. This can be a breakout of a major MA or a session high or low a S/R or even a Trendline. The solution wait for the retest then enter or wait for it to move far enough away to be a a clean break.

  2. Trying to turn price when we have these great trending moves in one direction seems like so many people instead of trying to get in with the trend they will try time and time again to enter right on the very top or bottom when it turns. Without any signal to go on. Solution wait for the entry signal to even try to turn it. It should also be at a area you have marked as a possiblity if not there is a good chance that the price will continue on after a brief stall. Watch for your flag and pendant patterns they really work between the s/r levels.

  3. Learn the times of day that we get the retracements. Normally late session time when some take profits afternoons US. late London. This is the one that latelly has gotten me. Been doing well taking trades away from the Major ma’s at the 10 and 21 , But then we get some strong retracement or even reversals and I get caught up in it. Again just wait for our signals and with any MA trades keep tight stops. Any close the otherside of your entry MA is a sign you may want to get out and wait for the next area. To lose 10 pips or so is better than letting it ride 20 against you . You will have to make up whatever it is so the less the better just don’t be scared to reenter. We have all seen price try to break through a area sometimes 3,4 even 5 times before finaly turning back. But I usually don’t try to turn it on the third or higher as it could be just be whittling away at stops and when they are all gone it does that 20 pip jump. Which can slip your stop.

  4. Looking at the above list it isn’t that big and it really isn’t why they are wrong the main issue is how are you handling any loss. Is it affecting your confidence are you praying for it to turn. Knowing better than that. I think the majority of us would do better to trade smaller risk amounts that way closing a bad trade is easier . Then as your confidence builds gradually add to that risk. I have found with my own trading I have higher gains when risking less. It is two fold One you jump out to soon because your nervous or two you don’t want to close because you don’t want that big of a loss. Which does only one thing make your loss bigger. It is better to take the minor loss then get right back in and make it up. Even if the trade was right in the first place and you were just a bit early.

  5. Don’t get stuck in that I will let it ride to the next MA or level it might turn there. Your still just stacking up negative pips get out and re enter at that next area but this time wait for the entry signal. That is the point the signals are showing the higher possiblity that the trade is right. Using our Candle signals along with Price Action and then through in the Support and resistance areas. The high and lows of the previous sessions. How can we be making hardly any losses.

That is enough of this for now I will next try and post what the best traders here are doing and looking at and how we should be right with them. That will be tomorrow…


[B] KENNETH lEE
Trade Inspiration Not Despiration . Member Since Nov 2008
1,858 Posts


So why are so few making so many pips and so many making so few?

I believe maybe somewhere along the line the primary goals of the system may have gotten twisted around…

The Main Goal is to pick the areas of greatest concern or where we see that price might reverse using our higher time frame charts. The daily and 4 Hr. Once they are plotted on our charts to watch Price Action in those areas and use our lower time frame charts to get the best entries possible allowing us to get the most out of each MAJOR move. Taking Profit also when price aproaches areas we have marked as possiblities where Price Action shows we again have a turn.

To achieve this goal we need to focus more on our higher time frame charts than we seem to be doing. We watch them for those areas and we enter off them along with price action and signals. But other than just possiblly covering our trades we aren’t allowing the profits to build as we should. Every trade is not a scalp ! Repeat after me; Every trade is not a scalp ! If we ever have plans to be half as good as EO and the others we will have to have a shift in our priorities.

The major trade should be the main focus and the scalps icing on the cake. This would be so much easier than trying to grab a few here and there. One reason the best do so well is that even when they are taking scalps they are normally in a very positive trade allready and either just adding to or trading against their main position. Sounds like a great thing to me. Plus I am sad to say their scalps are bigger than mine most times too. The main reasoning for that is they have no fear and we wouldn’t either. They are trading from a positive point almost all the time. Very rarelly are they waiting for something to go green. They don’t ,if it doesn’t they get out and try again Taking trades when your positive is easy you have that feeling of trading with house money. Plus that trades equity is on the plus side. If we can pull this off for a couple of weeks our whole mindset should shift and these ablities will come easier quicklly. I know how I would feel if I had a couple of weeks with gains even at one thousand it would change a lot of things.

We have all gained some patience to wait for trading entries and some have captured some great profits. But the consistency seems to allude us. We need to start using our skills to exceed our previous best and aim for much more. We will go through how I think I know it is being done by the best and how we can, using their skills as a guide teach ourselves to achieve similiar gains.

Probablly the first and foremost thing we will have to do is break our normal trading position size into a workable number of entries to allow us to manage our trades. If we are using to few of entries we have that all or nothing attitude. We need to be able to let some of our trade run while covering to relieve stress. This has been talked about a lot but it is critical to moving forward and if done correctlly can make the biggest difference in our trading the fastest.

Even the few that are achieving those awesome gains cover differentlly. I know one that doesn’t take much profit at all while another takes a good portion off at the first areas. One is just covering the cost of the trade and the other is locking in some good profits. Both are doing very well but per pip everything being the same the first leaving more $$ to run has greater gains per pip. But the other having less risk gains more pips. That isn’t the only factor but it sounds good and simple. LOL The second maybe having set in his mind a total amount to risk across all his trades may feel more able to take more counter trend and scalping trades than the first already being spread out a bit. Doubtfull but would maybe cross our minds in the begining.

So having the trades setup so we can cover in the way that makes us feel the least anxiety is key. This of course will be a personal choice. But if we do this correctlly we could very soon find ourselves trading at levels only imagined. This alone could be all that some have been missing. But we will go through a complete trade cycle to remind us of what we should be doing.

The SECONDARY GOAL of the system is the short term trades or secondary entries. I post chart with lots of marked trades. I fear some are miss reading what is posted those should not be viewed as a bunch of single trades but primary and secondary entries. You are looking for the best entry point at the extreme point . But if you miss that for any reason then the best secondry entry should be looked for and used. They are also showing points that a great entry can be covered and added too. So when looking at a chart with many entries always have in mind that the entry which makes the most gains is the one you are striving to learn to take.

But we don’t always have times of great trades and there are lots of chances to add to our equity by taking short term trades. I don’t know for sure the precentage but could figure that 25 to 30 percent of one of the best traders pipage is gained from short term trading. That is a great skill to have but as I said should be the second focus. I do tend to lean a bit more to those trades as it seems easier for begginers to understand a short trade.

But it isn’t the ultimate goal. That goal is to be well versed in all the trading methods presented here and have no problem taking them all. That is the only way the few are making 2000 to 4500 pips a week. People don’t believe those number are possible I hear crap about it all the time . The reason is that almost anyone making that kind of return isn’t bothering to help anyone else.

I will start the trade in a litle while… Ken [/B]

Here something to look at and think about for a minute. This worksheet was made up by EO His self… Are you using it if so why is trading so hard. Look it over read it . see how the information on it can help you then figure out a way to use it. print copies save to your desktop. Transfer to a whiteboard. Whatever. This is the type information we should be using.


The entry , Using our Higher time frames charts pick areas to watch when price nears them. then start looking at the lower time charts for the best entry. The best entry would be the one you can get in using the smallest stop. but make sure it is a good signal try and confirm it with all the time frames the best is if they all agree to the trade.



Now lets manage our trade.


Nice Explanation Ken…keep going…

Yes, Ken,

These posts are very helpful.
Thank you very much.
I will have to read the "Now lets manage our trade"
I just got in and out of my first trade of the year.
I’ll post it
Happy New Year
Jack