Dear Master Tang
The price is actually 119.95.
What do you believed is a fair price ?
Do you think it should be free, if so what is the incentive to produce such a tool, can you make a such a tool your self ?
Also looking at your posts I see you are a scalper, you should really give it a go to 4xGuardian because the Virtual Plug In is most effective against your trading stile and there is a 30 day money back also.
What I donât think is fair is your fear based marketing strategy.
Sell what you want, itâs a free world. Just donât act like youâre a caring, benevolent watchdog, when in fact the plan was to hock something all along. It makes you no different than the rest of the scammers in this business.
Could I program something like that? Why would I want to?
I spent my time learning to trade profitably.
I guess I was editing my post at the same time you wore making a reply.
To awnser your question of Could I program something like that? Why would I want to?
The reason is that you are a scalper ( I got that from your post on this forum ) and your trading strategy is very vulnerable to the Plug In.
lol?
You have developed that tool?
This website has been online for a long time, offering various â4xâ applications.
What you probably meant is that you have recently signed up as affiliates of that site (which offers some pretty useful tools, as a matter of fact), to make some extra money?
O.
Yes Iâm one of the developers.
And Thank you for the praise on our other tools, we have been working on this tools for since August but then late last year ECNJEUS contacted us via the site and give gaves us some great information about how the plug in is implemented on the Broker side, the video you see on this tread and the manual for the plug in and the account manager that he post on his site, plus several private email with him.
After taking in account his suggestions we made changes to the tool until we got it to cover all possible aspects like the fact that the Broker can refresh the data on your chart to change prices on previous bars, really amazing stuff.
Also my post have been deleted from FFactory, TSD and DonaForex. And Iâm sure they will be deleted from here soon.
Okay, thatâs pretty cool.
Iâve thought about purchasing â[I]4xPartner[/I]â for some time now, because it looks to be quite comprehensive. To make sure I have not misunderstood: one of its features is a scale-out function with freely choosable targets, right?
The â[I]MT4 Master Collection[/I]â looks interesting, too.
O.
Really?
Iâm a scalper? And you know that just by reading my forum posts?
Amazing.
Is this post talking about your trading style http://forums.babypips.com/forextown/33626-confessions-add-trader.html#post186782
Or some one else .
Yes you can scale down our trade in 2 different ways, just goto the page and look for documentation link on the top right of the screen.
I got it from this tread you started
Master Tang - 04-16-2010 09:09 PM #1
Confessions of an ADD Trader
Okay, I admit it.
Iâm a scalper.
A pip here, a pip there, sometimes 20⌠Or more⌠I donât intentionally look to scalp, but it is often that way.
The idea with this thread is not to try to convert anyone to my style of trading, or yours, if youâre a scalper too. But rather dispel a few myths I have seen, and share a few trade ideasâŚ
Think thatâs all I look for?
Youâd be very wrong;)
Key words in my post there are âI donât intentionally scalp, but it is often that wayâ.
I get minimal small gains quite often in my strategy. It has nothing to do with trying to scalp, but is a byproduct of my trade management.
I owe you no explanation, but you however, still fall into that âspammerâ category. You come on here along with âJesusâ posting the broker apocalypse crap, and then kindly posting your $149.00 save.
And yes, I saw your âsaleâ price of $119.00.
Answer this. If someone really doesnât know how to trade, is your little program going to help them? Or just sell them an illusion, making them think they are getting ripped off by their broker?
Spread changes, platform freezes, and all other variables you mention as tricks brokers use to pocket a traderâs money happen all day every day. How is it that some of us make money in spite of it? And without tossing you $119.00 for the privilege?
If someone really doesnât know how to trade, is your little program going to help them?
This is not an expert advisor that makes trades for you. I hope that is clear
Or just sell them an illusion, making them think they are getting ripped off by their broker?
[B]If you trades takes 5 seconds to execute, you get re-quotes, slippage, the prices on your chart change after your trade closed unprofitable, these are not illusions, this is real and it is costing you money.
Did you visit the NFA web site and checked the fines to Forex.com(Gain Capital), FXCM and Ikon are real, brokers do take advantage of traders, they used the Virtual Plug In, they only ones that get this upset when this is exposed is then not traders [/B]
You must think I am a complete dolt. I know the difference between an EA that makes trades, and your miracle watchdog you are peddling. My intentions were to state that people who trade badly, but at the same time get platform issues, and an occasional requote will think that your program is telling them their broker is cheating them. When in fact, they just canât admit they havenât a clue how to be profitable in the first place, and now have an excuse. How would that be productive for them?
Most of my entries are pending orders. I have had ONE order out of the last 200 or so that did not fill at the requested price.
I have also had several t/p orders that did not fill at the requested price, they in fact filled for positive slippage. Youâre not convincing me so far.
See that word âusedâ? Itâs past tense. They got fined heavily for their transgressions, consequently, Iâm sure the FTC is watching them and other brokers very closely.
Your whole sales pitch is predicated on the fear that brokers are crooks, and ripping people off right and left. Have you also built an underground bunker for the 2012 apocalypse?
Hi.
Sorry Iâve not been around here but Iâve been having issues with Vodafone 3G since yesterday afternoon and it appears the itâs only JUST started working this morning (for how long: who knows).
Out of interest sake: does THIS 4x??? piece of software or EA DETECT and TELL THE TRADER that âyes: the virtual dealer plug-in is installed and running on the brokerâs server without a doubtâ or is this just some or the other EA (or utility or whatever it is) that attempts to âoutsmartâ the virtual dealer plug-in if it is installed and running on the brokerâs server??? If itâs the latter then I donât see the point and itâs then just ANOTHER âfleecing toolâ. But Iâd like to know nevertheless.
Iâm still of the opinion that even WITH the virtual dealer plug-in âalive and wellâ at a broker: if you LEARN TO TRADE youâll still make money. Thereâs only SO much that plug-in is capable of from what I gather.
I have to admit though (and as I noted on the thread on this same topic on FPA): until I saw that manual I really thought that this plug-in was like the Yeti or Abominable Snowman. Over the years Iâve seen threads and posts about it come and go and very quickly become corpse threads. But that manual is irrefutable evidence of its existence letâs face it. And Iâm ashamed that a) itâs available and b) that brokers will go to those lengths to make a few extra (thousands is not more???) USD. As if it were not bad enough that most people lose in this business because theyâre not prepared to put in the time and effort!!! A broker will be profitable no matter what even if theyâre âsqueaky cleanâ. Thatâs just an unfortunate statistic. Greed I guess is the reason (of using the plug-in) which ironically is also one the of the reasons that most traders lose.
That said: maybe Iâm just (still being) naive. I keep WANTING to think that itâs designed as an AID for an overloaded manual dealing desk OR if it performs the same function as an âunderhandedâ manual dealing desk or both.
Anyway: Iâm not going to repeat my ENTIRE (new) view on the subject here as I have on FPA so keep looking at that thread too for those interested (the only reason I say this is because Iâm not even sure if, when I click the âSubmit Replyâ button, that this post is going to go through). Time to get ye olde trusty (but very slow) backup Internet connection out!!! LOL!!!
Regards,
Dale.
Dear dpaterso
The software we develop is to detect the presence and possible the setting being used by the plug-in, the reason is to find out if your trades performance is been affected by it, so you can take the appropriated action, you should file a complain with the appropriated authorities and closed you account with the offending broker. Because is a fact this is a real problem here are some of the finding of the NFA, I have added the case number in case you like to read the whole document in there web site.
NFA Case 10-BCC-029 - IKON
In November 2007, IKON purchased an add-on to the MetaTrader platform called the âVirtual Dealer Plug-|n,â which it began using in December 2007. The slippage settings that IKON established for the Virtual Dealer Plug-ln were asymmetrical for maximum losing slippage (slippage unfavorable to the customer and favorable to IKON) and maximum zprofitable slippage (slippage favorable to the customer and unfavorable to IKON), which caused disadvantageous trading conditions for customers and, in some instances, provided an automatic favorable advantage to IKON.
ln order to determine how the slippage settings affected customer orders, NFA analyzed all trades executed on MetaTrader platform on four ânon-farm payrollâ dates - December 4, 2009, January 4,2010, February 5,2010 and March 5, 2010. On those days, NFAâs analysis confirmed that IKONâs slippage parameters did not allow for any profitable slippage (slippage favorable to the customer)
NFA Case 10-BCC-015 - Gain Capital (FOREX.COM)
NFAâs 2009 audit of Gain found that the firm engaged in leverage and margin practices that were harmful to its customers. For example, Gain adopted a policy whereby, every Friday, it lowered the leverage for all of its accounts that were allowed to trade at 200:1 leverage - which included the micro accounts - to a 100:1 leverage. The effect of this weekly adjustment was to increase the margin requirement on these accounts from 0.5% to 1%. As a result of Gainâs practice of adjusting leverage/margin levels on Fridays, the
accounts of many of its customers became under margined - even though they were adequately margined prior to the leverage adjustment. In order to bring the under margined accounts back into compliance with the higher margin requirement, Gain would liquidate the largest losing position in these accounts.
However, sometimes the losing position that Gain liquidated contained multiple 416. contracts and the liquidation of only a portion of the losing position would have been sufficient to satisfy the new margin requirement. Nevertheless, Gain would arbitrarily liquidate the whole position which would not only result in the account being over margined but preclude the customer from possibly realizing a potential gain on that portion of the position the forced liquidation of which was unnecessary to satisfy the higher margin requirement.
Most of the positions that Gain liquidated on the aforementioned three dates - in anticipation of adverse market moves over the weekend - would have experienced minimal gains or losses if they had remained open over the weekend instead of being liquidated. However, because of the liquidations that occurred on these dates, affected customers realized overall losses totaling nearly $425,000.
Gain established the following slippage parameters for the Virtual Dealer Plug-ln
used for its institutional server:
Delay: 1 sec
Maximum Volume: 1 00 contracts
Maximum Losing Slippage: 20 pips
Maximum Profit Slippage: 3 pips
Maximum Profit Slippage Volume: 5 contracts
NFA Case 11-BCC-016- FXCM
12.In the event that FXCM is able to offset a customerâs order at a better price than the âtagged priceâ, it was FCXMâs pratice not to give the better price to the customer but instead give the customer the âtagged priceâ and retain for itself the difference between the tagged price, which the customer received, and the better price that FXCM recieved in the offsetting trade.
13. On the other hand, if FXCM offset the customerâs order at a worse price ( negative, unfavorable to the customer), FXCM gave the customer the worse price rather that the better price that was tagged when the customer submitted his/her order.
15. From January to September 2010, FXCM derived approximately $520.000 from positive slippage, none of which it passed on to its customers.
18. During January trough September 2010, there were over 40,000 margin liquidation order that experience positive slippage, resulting in a gain of aproximately $130.000 to FXCM on these orders.
Well thanks for going to all that trouble (with the information I mean). But thatâs not what I was asking. Iâm fully aware of all of the above.
To everyone else:
Iâve really been âstewingâ on this and like I said over at FPA: I guess the best that we can do is ensure that new traders are AWARE of the SIGNS really. You really donât need to panic and pay somebody ANY amount of money that may or may not be able detect the presence of absence of some or the other plug-in (and be even MORE âout of pocketâ)!!! Put another way: if this (and other) plug-ins are so ânear and dearâ to either MetaQuotes or the brokers that use them for dubious purposes you can bet your ar*e THEY will be one step ahead of any piece of software that anybody can write to detect the presence of absence of such plug-ins (much like the âvirus businessâ). Put another way: if a broker is âbadâ you can be almost sure that their âanticsâ are NOT JUST limited to using this (and other) plug-ins. Thereâll be OTHER âwarning signsâ. So for now hereâs my contribution (see the link below). FOR ONCE you can skip the âIâm in love with my brokerâ parts. LOL!!! Itâs the main points made at the beginning of the review that are important here. I think at some stage (maybe even this weekend) Iâll either make it a separate post (thread) or turn it into a .PDF and we can then we can all âadd to the listâ??? A sort of âwhat to look for in a brokerâ list (as contrarian as they may be)!!! Put another way: it doesnât take very many trades to see if youâre getting ârapedâ or not IF YOU KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR (which unfortunately I didnât for a LONG LONG time and many tens of thousands of USD later). And the irony here: my first broker didnât even OFFER MetaTrader as a trading platform (the one that âtaughtâ me all of these âlessonsâ that are referred to in my review) so you can be sure that these âmovesâ are NOT just limited to brokers offering MetaTrader BUT the âbehaviourâ and end result are exactly the same. Bottom line really (as I said): if a broker is ârottenâ then theyâre ârottenâ. Software or plug-ins aside. Such software or plug-ins will be but ONE âtoolâ in their âarsenalâ to âfleeceâ you.
DeltaStock Review And Rating, deltastock.com | Myfxbook
Regards,
Dale.
And a note to the NEW Admins that donât know me:
This is NOT solicitation or advertising!!! Read the thread before deleting the link!!! You know who Iâm talking to!!!
I love you post,I think I will send people here so see how much they can be saving, the title will be How to Save Thousands of USD
Also if you start a tread about what to look for I will most definitely be a contributor, my experience detecting the plug in with GAIN capital and creating 4xGuardian will be of most used. It could also help me improved my software and will let people decided if they like a automated solution or do it manually .
Hi.
Alright letâs not get off to a âbad footingâ here. Iâm not interested in your product and Iâm not interested in what you do with it and quite frankly if youâre a trader and youâre so concerned about other traders (and assuming your product works) then you should be distributing it freely in an effort to try to âclean upâ this business. By selling it youâre basically (in my opinion) no better than (as Master Tang noted) the brokers that use these plug-ins to increase their profits. I mean: once the software has been written well, then, what more is there for you to do??? Thatâs different from, say, for example, me charging annual fees for membership to my forums etc. because I spend hours and hours doing on-line training etc. on an ongoing basis and that costs time and effort and data and sometimes phone-calls so there ARE other costs involved too. Whatâs more: no offence but donât letâs let you nor I become TOO friendly because there is NO WAY Iâm going to endorse your product in any way, shape, or form. So letâs get that straight right here and now. If you were GIVING it away (and it works) Iâd HERALD you. But trying to get new traders to pay for software that may or may not work and on the OFF chance that their broker is using plug-ins against them??? Nah. Thatâs as low as the brokers themselves that use the plug-ins for dishonest purposes.
And after putting much thought into this issue since the user manual âfell from the skyâ: Iâve now decided that actually it STILL DOES âboil downâ to trader education. If I place a market order at X and itâs executed, with no re-quote, at Y, well thereâs a simple warning sign right there. Thatâs not rocket science. If a trading platform freezes almost always just before or at news data release times: thereâs another sign. Again: not rocket science. Slippage or re-quotes at news data release times or during periods of high market volatility??? Again it âboils downâ to education. In a fast moving or very volatile market: slippage IS JUST going to happen. Again: education. Thereâs a belief among new traders that if they place an order at X then it had better be executed at X otherwise theyâre being âfleecedâ. Nonsense. In a slow moving market or if trading the longer time-frames: then it shouldnât happen (or should I say it should happen less often). Pick up any book on the trading of stocks or futures or commodities. I challenge you to find ONE that, while explaining a trading system, doesnât contain the line âSo I placed an order at X and got filled at Yâ or when giving statistics for a given trading system there is always a note that says âcommissions and slippage are not accounted for in these resultsâ. Education!!! Unfortunately when I started out: there was nobody as âoutspokenâ about these things. Or maybe I waited to long to start asking WHY I could only close losing trading âin the twinkling of an eyeâ but never close a profitable trade before being re-quoted a good few times by which time the profit had all but been lost. Who knows.
And then also: thereâs this thing about scalping and making a few hundred dollars in a few seconds of trading or trading the news. For some reason: most new traders seem to THINK that theyâre trading the same way as theyâve seen on TV or in movies i.e. that on-line trading is the same as, and exciting as, being a floor trader on the floor of an exchange. THOSE are the REAL âscalpersâ and short term traders i.e. huge positions but only looking for tiny moves. In and out. Day in and day out. Minute by minute. First: theyâre âright thereâ. Second: theyâre not trading FOREX. Third and when it comes to electronic trading and trading the news: the reason those huge spikes occur is not because a bunch of on-line Retail Spot FOREX decided to press the buy or sell button all at the same time. Those spikes come from people a LOT more âin the knowâ and are trading with âthe best of the bestâ computer systems and news feeds e.g. the banks and the likes of the Goldman Sachsâ of this world. By the time even your average Retail Spot FOREX broker gets the data the move is ALREADY over (even milliseconds count). So you as âJoe Retail Spot FOREX Traderâ are probably at least third or fourth in line. The best chance you have of making money when trading the news is to fade the move that you see. Of course: with the existence of these plug-ins youâll probably get re-quoted and re-quoted (maybe even WITHOUT these plug-ins if the moves are volatile enough). So again: Education!!! Trading the news or scalping is NOT for the inexperienced trader ESPECIALLY if theyâre trading with a broker of ill repute which, as Iâve noted, is not rocket science to notice IF youâre INFORMED and AWARE. Education!!!
And besides: youâre selling something (or tying to sell something) that costs more than your average new Spot FOREX Trader is going to open their account with e.g. $100 with 50 000:1 leverage. That IN AND OF itself is a recipe for disaster and thatâs got NOTHING to do with plug-ins or anything else. Thatâs for those that fall into the âget rick quick trading Spot FOREXâ fraternity.
So there you have it. As Iâve noted: if a broker is âbadâ theyâre âbadâ and thereâs nothing that you nor I or your software is going to do to change that. For every âbucket-shopâ that closes down you can be sure thereâll be another five to replace them from some âholeâ in Cyprus of Belize using the same software and plug-ins.
Thatâs my final âtakeâ on this subject and the only one that makes sense to me. Educate the masses and, well, if they fail, then at least (hopefully) itâs for a good reason e.g. THEIR OWN shortcomings as a human being because weâre ALL human beings and THIS business is the ONE business in the WORLD that is the âequaliserâ. Itâs the only business in the world where at least, on a personal level, itâs obvious that human beings have certain common inherent characteristics or weaknesses and only those that can overcome those weaknesses will be successful in the long run.
Regards,
Dale.
You and ECNJesus are really good at misrepresenting what was said. What Dale was saying has NOTHING to do with getting cheated by an MT4 broker.
ECNJesus never properly answered my question to him, and used a quote of mine completely out of context. You cherry pick a statement from Dale, and use it to back up your theory, although itâs completely irrelevant to your âproductâ.
Thatâs pretty lame, and fairly transparent as to your motives, which arenât as benevolent as you would have people think.
I canât say Iâm suprised but certainly saddend by this latest revelation. Whatever happened to âmen of honourâ and âmy word is my bondâ? It seems gone are the days when a simple nod from one pit trader to another over a crowded floor was good enough to buy or sell at a FIXED price! I must admit it comes as a suprise if as suggested FXCM have been caught using this type of software? Software that as far as I can see has but one purpose⌠to manipulate prices in a brokers favour? Given that they are large enough to be quoted on the NY Stock Exchange and are regulated in both the UK and US one assumed that they would have been above such things. I did wonder why I recieved an unsolicited large refund from FXCM late last year! Perhaps those with larger accounts might consider having their lawyers draft an iron clad contract expressly prohibiting such software use as a condition of remaining a client? After all we have to file plenty of thier paperwork. What a sad state of affairs. :33:
EDIT: Hows the paperwork going Dale⌠a hard rum drinking, no âBSâ man like yourself Iâd have no problem being my broker! LOL!!!