Wannabe mentors, supposed gurus, charletans, cheats, scammers, stay out!

Beginner Questions
1

The longer I immerse myself in the Forex world the more and more I begin to grow weary of all the people who have no intentions of being successful traders, however only exist to prey on the hopes and desires of those looking to succeed in Forex and for me it stops here today!

Intentions of this thread:

a) To help each other succeed in Forex trading.
b) To sort out who is the real deal and seek them out and expose them for the scammers they are.
c) To discuss our frustrations with those who have preyed on our hopes and desires to succeed in Forex so others can learn from our mistakes.

We must be tenacious, endure, and no matter what happens don’t give up. I will continue to be optimistic as I know there are great people and mentors out there.

IF ANYONE IS HERE FOR PERSONAL GAIN FROM OTHERS, TO TAKE ADVANTAGE, TO CHEAT, STAY OUT. THE ONLY THING TO GAIN HERE IS TO BETTER OURSELVES AS TRADERS AND TO BE IN THAT 1% UPPER ECHELON THAT SO FEW ATTAIN.

There will be no solicitations of mentoring services offered here especially if they require a fee. But the gurus would ask, “but I deserve to get paid for my expertise and my knowledge don’t I?”

To that I say yes you do, but I am extremely confident in my ability to succeed as an apprentice and to be a profitable trader. So I propose this, teach me to be successful and there will be a revenue or profit sharing based on what I earn? TRUE ACCOUNTABILITY!!! If their methods aren’t solid and profitable they shouldn’t get paid for teaching them should they? Seems so simple but it isn’t. A friend of mine and I were talking about the problems in the US and the absolute moral decay of our society (well not ours I guess he is Canadian). The same goes for Wall Street CEOs and executives. Making millions of dollars for failing.

Let’s start a new trend, let’s make money for displaying competency, success, and “qualified” mentorship, offering something of real value not BS perceived value, and being the best of the best here today. I know it will be a stretch but we can do it!

I will be starting an IRC chat room soon as well. This will be for noobs and veterans alike to come to learn and teach. Keep your eyes here for updates and please send me a message if you would like details.

2

Great idea. Count me in . I am always ready to learn without all the bs:D

3

Finally - I don’t think you really need a teacher. It works fine learning on your own and after a while you’ll realize which people here are worth listening to. And if you don’t it doesn’t matter since you’ll then most likely belong to the 99% anyway.

4

95 or 99 ??? :D:D

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5

You are right that many many people will never follow directions and are destined to fail regardless. However, why is it that we never see actual trades based on what someones performance has been only miraculous claims? With such excuses as, “someone is going to come after me for all the money I’m making, or the tax man is watching, etc etc etc.” I have heard it all before.

Also, I have no intentions of personal attacks however when you find someone doing something intentionally wrong and it’s without question that person should be exposed. All opinions should be kept out of it. IE: a mentor is saying they are trading in a live room with a very large account only to find out it is a demo.

This is a perpetrated fraud and should be exposed as such. No personal attack, just a simple fact.

[B]o990l6mh- So I pose this question to you, do you consider yourself a successful trader? Are you willing to be our first guest in the nobsforex live trading room as an expert? [/B]

“Here I’d like to say that no matter how great the teacher may be, if the student is to stupid or lazy to learn no money will be made.
In such a case of course the teacher deserves to get paid in spite of the student’s failing to make money huh?”

I don’t agree, there should be a system in place here. There should be an admissions process, if they truly are too stupid or lazy this will be found out shortly and they should be dropped from the program. Unfortunately as it stands most are only concerned with the size of their memberships and how much revenue they are bringing in and not the quality of the curriculum and the standards set to ensure the graduates success.

This is similar to saying, they were admitted to Harvard but they were too stupid and lazy to graduate. NO! They never would have been admitted and they certainly wouldn’t have graduated.

If someone wants to get paid for no results they should go out on the seminar circuit and sell books and tapes. And trust me I know all about this I did it the last two years before this.

“Finally - I don’t think you really need a teacher. It works fine learning on your own and after a while you’ll realize which people here are worth listening to. And if you don’t it doesn’t matter since you’ll then most likely belong to the 99% anyway.”

I find this to be a truly inaccurate statement. All of the most successful people in the world have had great teachers and mentors. To say I will just figure it out on my own doesn’t make sense. Why put yourself through that pain when there are others that can help you avoid a great deal of it and accelerate the steep learning curve. This has been the case for me in real estate investment.

Surround yourself by a team of successful experts and there is no way you can lose. Why shouldn’t this hold true here with Forex?

6

Surf around a little and I’m sure you’ll find some people worth listening to. Do go ahead and try to find a teacher, just make sure you think for yourself - always.

7

Let me be clear I am not looking to go on a crusade whatsoever I just think that when we come across these frauds, that cheat and steal that we share the information with each other.

I was not asking you to teach or instruct but just participate. I personally really enjoy trading with others in a room it makes a very lonely profession more enjoyable as well as getting new ideas from other traders (yes this is a double edges sword as it can be dangerous).

I also do agree with you that some sort of monetary compensation should be given as tuition. But again if they don’t want to be compensated based on students success they should write a program and put out a DVD series in my opinion.

As far as your comment on the “do some searches” that makes it sound like I just started looking into this stuff yesterday. I am trading at least 12 hours a day and when I am not trading I am insatiably looking for information about trading and have been doing so for months and months.

I appreciate your input and feedback and look forward to more of it.

Regards,
Sean Mathes

8

So in the spirit of full transparency I am going to tell a bit about myself.

I am 28 years old and live in a loft in Downtown Denver Colorado. I am a Colorado native and have been here my entire life except for a brief time when I went to school at the university of Hawaii.

I have a live in girlfriend who I have been with for two years and two dogs. Sushi and Bailey.

I graduated with a degree in finance from Colorado State University in May of 2004.

Professionally I have a background in telecommunications and sales until I started trading Forex approximately three months ago.

I have also been a real estate investor for the past five years and currently hold a small portfolio of properties here locally (six pieces). Was licensed as a RE agent in CO.

Prior to Forex I was a professional public speaker and the Vice President of a company that taught people how to get out of debt and a better way to handle their finances. Once again I was disappointed with the vision of others and saw this to be a company that didn’t treat people well and I could no longer associate myself with them.

I have been trading for over a decade mostly equities. I started in the late 90s when everyone thought they could make money trading stocks. I took a very long break in between and have started trading again the last couple years.

I feel I have finally found something that I love to do and I can be passionate about in Forex and am excited about the future prospects.

Sean Mathes

A whole lot of info most people probably don’t care about this stuff, but the point is to know who you are working with and what they are about before giving them 1000s of dollars. :slight_smile:

9

I think the issue isn’t just charging for a service, but charging a reasonable amount for a service.

It’ll use live trading rooms as an example, since they tend to be the most common ripoffs that people fall for…

I have no problem with someone charging $50 per month, or maybe even as high as $100, for a live trading room membership, but there are people that are charging anywhere from $500 up to thousands per month for such a service!

There is no real need to evaluate them because it’s obvious they are taking advantage of people. :slight_smile:

10

Phil- thanks for your perspective. The way I see it is people don’t mind paying a few hundred, $500, or even several thousand per month if there is a decent ROI. But most of these rooms are worthless and that’s when the fee really hurts.

Would you mind paying even $5k per month if it gave you the tools necessary to make $20k? I certainly would have no problem doing so.

How does the old adage go? Give a man a fish, or teach him how to fish? Unfortunately almost all of these guys are teaching people how to fish with a broken pole and worthless bait, and they are giving the fish they do happen to catch back and then some. :slight_smile:

11

Also, many people that get started in this business are so desperate for the next indicator, strategy, or holy grail they will do anything and trust anyone with their money. This is the power of hope and desperation (clear throat) as we can see demonstrated in our last election in the US and the things we can look past if our judgment is clouded, but I digress. Anytime you come from a desperate place there is never anything good to come from it.

The whole idea of a mentor for hire is so absurd to me. A mentor is a teacher, a trusted advisor

I have just spent several weeks watching people throw thousands and tens of thousands of dollars away based on the words of a supposed mentor. They have taken their word for it, and why? Do they trust this person, NO they are HOPING it’s going to be the answer to their financial freedom and the end to their day to day grind, or the riches at the end of the rainbow.

12

[B]NOTICE:
I AM CURRENTLY WORKING ON A DOCUMENT FOR EVERYONE TO USE INTERESTED IN INTERVIEWING OR WORKING WITH ONE OF THESE SO CALLED PROS, GURUS, MENTORS. IT BASICALLY CONSISTS OF AN INTERVIEW STYLE PROCESS. YES EVERYONE, IF YOU ARE CONSIDERING WORKING WITH SOMEONE THAT IS GOING TO HAVE A VERY BIG INFLUENCE ON WHERE YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY GOES NEEDS TO KEEP THIS IN MIND. IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE PERSON YOU ARE CONSIDERING FOR MENTORING WILL NOT ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS YOU WANT TO RUN THE OTHER WAY[/B]

This could easily be satisfied with a 5-10 minute conversation. If you then still have a good feeling about them ask for the required documents as a “formality” before officially moving forward.

******This is all assuming a mentor is a good idea in the first place. Personally for me, the jury is still out on that one.

13

I’d have a big problem with it! :slight_smile:

If the teacher has the knowledge he needs to make tons and tons of money, I have to questions his motive for teaching it in the first place.

These are only 3 motives I can think of for a person to open a live trading room…

#1: His method doesn’t really work (or doesn’t work as well as he says), and he’s just making money off the suckers that sign up for this service.

#2: His method works, but he is low on capital and needs to charge for the room to raise money so his trading can be profitable.

#3: He’s just an all around nice guy and wants to help people. Or he is doing it more as a hobby than a for-profit buiness.

A person in category #2 or #3 will not charge more than a small, reasonable fee that compensates them for their time. Do do so would be unethical to a #3 person, and bad business for a #2 person, since he would make more money with a large volume of customers spreading good word-of-mouth advertising about his service than with a few overcharged customers.

The only person that would charge a huge fee is person #1. He must charge a large fee because once people pay and don’t get results they will leave and advise others not to join. The only way he can make money is to gouge the few people that do join his worthless service.

I know it’s not concrete proof, but I think it’s good enough to show that 99% of people charging large amounts for trading rooms are scammers. :slight_smile:

14

I’ll be very interested to see your document. As a person that is in the process of opening up a free trading room I’m interested to see if I pass your criteria. :slight_smile:

15

Phil you are absolutely right and I agree 100% with your analysis. The document should be out sometime this weekend already pounding away on it. I have dealt with so many of these guys in so many aspects of my professional career I feel I am qualified to write it. ie: real estate, seminar industry, investing, forex, etc. Why is it I choose to get into the things with so many scammers? Oh yea, that’s where all the money is so they come running. :slight_smile:

***Also Phil so which # are you? LOL :smiley:

16

I’m a #3. I’m working on starting a forex website/blog/trading room but it’s just a hobby, everything is going to be free. Although if it gets popular and some brokers want to pay me for some ad space I have no problem with that. :slight_smile:

I’ve kept my expenses way down so far, and I make my money trading so I don’t need to make any money off a website. Although I really, [I]really[/I] want a certain piece of chatroom software I’ve been looking at that’s $299. If I end up buying it I’ll probably put a completely optional Paypal donate button the on the site to help offset the $299. :slight_smile:

17

Onecent or Phil , on your subject Onecent i saw a great post on a blog about the subject of trading rooms and what to look for and lookout for.He is a futures trader but the subject is generic.Phil can i cut and paste this are is that not allowed?

18

onecent you seem like you have a good head on your shoulder. just don’t go paying anybody for anything right now. you can learn on your own. you don’t need somebody to hold your hand, you just need some coaching along the way.

first off there are some great coaches around here who are willing to point you in the right direction

2nd stay away from inidicator based systems, learn to trade right by following pirce. I know not everybody agrees but i want to tell you my story and a little bit about myself.

ive been trading for years now. I started out looking for the right combination of indicators, and moving average crosses. i remeber trading the bunnygirl cross :smiley: i looked at the vegas tunnel, the vanessafx, moteki trading. after a while of me being flighty I gave up on one and moved to another.

then i started thinking it is me not the systems i was trading. i was letting emotions rule me and it was costing alot of money. so i started to look at expert advisors (automated trading) I fell for one after another but i started looking at price action, still it was hard work doing all that thinking and no concrete set of rules so i was looking for the easy way out.

to date I probably bought like 25+ different ea’s they work some of the time but they are all hyped up and they fail in the long term. its not the $99 for the robot, youo have to be careful the thing doesn’t blow up your account!!!

so I started looking at mentoring and i fished around. have you seen what rob booker charges??? for what if he was so good he wouldn’t need to pack in all those people and tour the world with his over priced seminars. I went with Jimmy Young, he was great honestly a gentleman and a scholar. I would recommend him to anyone its just for me his method didn’t really click. i went with james here 40-100 but im not going to comment. I always feel like somebody is full of sh** when they tell you after the fact owe im in this trade or ok im going to close now but they didn’t clearly announce when they got in.

so then I arrived at the realisation that yes it is going to take hard work, yes I am undercapitalised, no im not going to be a millionare in 14 weeks :D, indicators simply do not work. These are my truths.

Now I have totally focused on my discretionary price action trading and for once in my life I am consistantly profitable and looking for the long term. Will I make it? Yes. Will I be in the top 5%? yes top 1%? yes. Why? Because I was smart enough to be honest with myself and realize there was no shortcut to success and to realize nobody will ever care about my trading more than me. owe yea i forgot the signal service faze. anyway don’t listen to anyones trade ideas, come up with your own and if you are not good enough for your own ideas yet don’t worry this is a journey and it won’t happen overnight. Just be smart and continue to scrutinize anything that relates to forex, wether it is a system, a robot, a mentor, a person posting on the internet whatever.

thanks, john

19

See John that’s what I am talking about. That kind of experience is absolutely priceless. By you sharing that kind of information it will make others think twice about moving forward with indicator systems, EAs, etc, and making some of the mistakes that you had to suffer through. Like I said before, if you surround yourself with the right people you can avoid a great deal of pain by learning from their past mistakes.

I really liked what you said about “guidance”. Sometimes you just need someone to bounce your ideas off of or just reaffirm what you were thinking. Not necessarily to tell me exactly when to enter trades. I am smart enough to determine my own entries and exits but a little push in the right direction and the tools necessary would be nice.

Again thank you for your post it was invaluable and I hope you will continue to follow this thread and provide your insight.

20

Go ahead and cut and paste it, as long as you aren’t posting any links I don’t believe it’s against the forum rules.

I’m interested to see it!!