this is excatly what i mean, for anyone who does check out the original forex mentor site and sees noble entry…and watches the video… vic noble explains how he “invented” this concept and has traded it for years…then this site ICT “came up with OTE back in 97” … seriously? well you should go get a piece of the pie from these fellas making a lot of money off “your” concepts
so those of you who doubt it, and before you keep getting butthurt over what im saying, just go check it out then say whatever…maybe you will see my point which is yes, this information is free and it is GREAT…but why claim that you came up with it all ? i dont understand…someone watch the ICT PTC video and look at the tabs…go to forex mentor and read over those specific lessons, and maybe if you aren’t blind you can see its just their information being passed to us, nothing less nothing more , so why complain and attack me for showing it ?
lets count how many times people say “oh well its free here” “oh well ICT is better” "oh well i’ll stick to this method because its better " “oh well your just getting mad because blah blah blah”
and lets see how many people realize im not doubting any of these methods . im not doubting any talent, im not doubting ANYTHING EXCEPT FOR THESE ARE NOT ORIGINAL CONCEPTS FROM MR ICT HIMSELF…please oh please let people see this…
sorry for thread hi-jack … once agian , bring on this ICT concepts so they can “run wilddd!!!”
Six3six,
I trust you that other people also teaching some of the techniques. I am newby to forex but had mentors in my other profession. It is not about material only. It is also how you present it. There are other ingredients in a good mentor too for example Integrity, leadership quality etc. I find all qualities of a best leader and a mentor in ICT.
Let’s be friends and not distract the learning process. (I guess that why we are all here) I am not going to post any more on this topic.
It is not a question of whether or not you are questioning the validity of the methods. It is a question of why you feel the need to go onto someone else’s thread, a popular thread, that many find helpful, and criticize without seemingly offering any upside. Even if you were factually correct in everything you say - and we will all have our own opinions on that - it is very unclear what purpose you intend to serve by pursuing this here. Add to that that many of your posts have been both offensive and sarcastic in tone, and I wonder that you thought that this was a constructive, helpful line to take. Threads on here are like music on the radio - if you don’t like it, listen to something else, if you do like it, don’t knock it. Many of us think that this thread is great, and respect ICT’s posts and views, both on this thread and on the forum as a whole. Those who don’t - why shout about it? Just move along to something else rather than poisoning the atmosphere for the rest of us.
ICT never claimed he invented such tools, and the term “ICT methods” were made up for some posters if I recall correctly, not ICT himself.
ICT is presenting here what has worked for him, and he’s put his own personal view to it. What’s wrong with it?
There’s nothing new under the sun. I’ve seen the tools he’s presented here all over the internet, sometimes separately, sometimes together, but the way he teaches has clicked in so many people because it’s really straightforward and easy to understand, unlike some other threads, websites, where you probably scratch your head several times before getting it.
So to sum up, he never said he invented such concepts, nor that this information was unique to this thread. He even recommended some other sources to catch up with what he posts here. I don’t see the problem.
Ok folks I don’t want to be the thread policeman but unless ICT feels any need to defend himself (we all know he doesn’t need to) and the fact that there is a list of us a mile long who think six is misrepresenting Micheals assertions and are simply grateful for bringing these concepts together for us in an accessible and usable way, taking many hours of his time to demonstrate many the years of his experience for us to benefit from.
Six is entiled to his opinion, it’s been made. Honestly chap, with respect there is absolutely no further need to elaborate. So back to business. I hope this is the last post on the subject bar anything Michael might want to say.
Firstly, I’m a bit surprised to see you acting like this… I’m really surprised.
Secondly, let’s have a history lesson for those spending time in this piece of fiction. I have told you all in the videos and chat as well as these posts… I have spent probably more than you have made or funded accounts with in the last 17 years, chasing courses and mentors. Doesn’t this pretty much say I have seen it all? I didn’t hide this fact… I actually said you wouldn’t have to if you waited for the material… fact is yes I did.
Do I record my screen and make no bones about my information sharing? I sure did. If I was clowning or trying to claim originality on Forexmentor material and calling it my own… at the same time I refer folks to Chris Lori’s work… who I might add is the only qualified trader at ForexMentor I would plug… what would that make me? Namely a fool… it wouldn’t take long for folks to see my work would be there’s repackaged as you suggest.
Frankly, I will spill the beans here and allow my ego to shine a little bit… I consider myself a better trader than the “mentors at ForexMentor” this includes Mr. Lori… that’s a given. I do not name my tools the Huddlestonator Entry Technique or Fractals or Swing Highs and Lows Huddleston Fractals as Lori Fractals are called for gimmick sake. Lori didn’t discover swing highs and lows for spitssake! I do not like referring to my methods as “mine”… but extensions of me as the Trader.
Kill zones… show me on the ForexMentor course materials and or mentor and I will send you a check buddy… that’s mine. Sorry, the list of inaccuracies is growing on your assumptions and shall we continue?
The Optimal Trade Entry pattern is older than Vic Noble’s time on this internet… it’s been around before me. I already explained in numerous places I have been in this game for more years than ForexMentor has operated. I was trading things before Forex was allowed by folks like you. Fibonacci is a general concept that goes misused by most… I blended, whether you can trust it or not, with a classic price pattern commonly referred to as a “1,2,3 pattern” I first learned from a goofball named Ken Roberts… in 1994!
It’s titled Optimal Trade Entry because thats what it is… this is not Lori’s optimal trade entry material he sells. Noble Entry is nothing more than this application which is taught in EVERY FIBONACCI treatise, but how and when to use it… that’s mine… period. If that’s the case… Babypips can claim the pattern too as its discussed in their Fib section on retracements… they do know about the 62 and 79% levels Six3Six… think now. Vic Noble talks about the retracement but doesnt tell you where and when it will form… I do. Big difference.
I never seen a mentor teach SMT… if you can find a source older than 1998, I will send you a cashiers check for $10,000.00 USD. That is mine… ForexMentor wishes they had a resource like that alone. Pivots… I learned Pivot Zone trading from a man named George Angel… a S&P 500 day trader… his London Close window was taught in a seminar in 1990’s… of which I bought. Vic Noble and Shirley Hudson who? lmao please!
The concepts of London Open and Asian Range I learned from Chris Lori… that’s it. The low or high made in first few hours of trading I learned from Larry Williams… paid $5000.00 USD to learn that I gave to you all.
I do not need gimmicks to dazzle you into a sale or membership… I have been there and done that. Google InnerCircleTrader.com and Ox… as I was known on AOL and many trading forums… that was me. I hosted a Yahoo group for Stocks, Futures, Currencies and I had a larger following in 2002 than those who visit Babypips in a week.
I put myself out there and dare anyone to claim my work is anywhere else shared, sold or otherwise. You do not see it, know where it is or heard of it elsewhere… you want to know why? The rich keep it to themselves… I have friends and family watch me do this for free and shake their heads and ask why I do it… for guys like you Six3Six.
I can assure you… There is no ForexMentor rehash going on in here. I have everything they sell… the majority of it is fluff or filler and its based on common things pitched to neophytes and to those individuals… in hindsight… it’s magical… genius.
Peter Bain never talks about a move before it occurs… because he doesn’t TRADE IT!
Vic Noble says he’s been in this business for 30 years… brokers stay broke or sell something else… he sells courses… why hasn’t he made a mint? Why isn’t he giving free resources? Simply because he earns a living selling dreams… and has no risk when folks bust on his teachings, but when a winners comes along… push that pony to the front of the line and sell sell sell.
Jarret Davis is so new to trading and parrots everything from Chris Lori and or Vic Noble says that’s a waste of space talking about him.
Chris Lori trades other peoples money… I trade mine. There is a stark difference… I have paid more taxes in one quarter, than the three of them probably have traded in any account of their own.
So here is the bottomline in all this Six3Six… and I’m sure you have thought you found a pearl you want to shine and show to everyone… but you are holding a rock. You think you exposed something Earthshaking or taboo? I purposely named my videos Pro Traders Club to provide a costfree approach to those considering what FM sells… I bragged I like the fact I stand out here blocking peddlers from selling dreams on many times nothing more than “theory”… while I have DONE IT… Do IT… and have been at it for more years and openly showcasing it on the internet for many… many… years.
I’ve been ZzOxzZ, InnerCircleTrader, Dynamo, OxitixO… I’ve shared nuggets on so many forums in so many personalities… I just came out to reveal me the real person at Babypips. I use my real name… I share my real story… I share my pains and glory.
I sell nothing. I steal nothing. I claim nothing outside of my own work. ForexMentor… if you spent the thousands of dollars I have there, you would know they are not that impressive. The flagship is Chris Lori… the London Close course is being tweaked every month by them… I have held off to keep anything I share here… as I know first hand their mentors read these forums… from finding its way to “their” groundbreaking course. Sorry pal… that “Strategy” is old hat for pros and if you think not… do more homework.
I learned everything I do aside from the Interest Rate divergence and SMT from other traders. I have said this before. I also said many times these gurus and teachers do not use the concepts they peddle… in most cases. My work has always been focused on that which works… if it didn’t or I didn’t trust it… it didn’t stay in the toolbox.
Time of day theory is a floor traders concept. Every day the stock index futures make a swing between 9 and 11 am, this is commonly referred to as the Morning Swing… conversely the afternoon 2-4pm sees a Afternoon Swing… this is is the basis of London Close in Forex and Stocks and Futures and Bonds. You didn’t really think you blew the lid off of some scandle did you… really?!? This is how real traders understand the markets. Which is diameterically opposed to smucks who learn about it and think its easier to tag it as their Top Gun namesake gimmick; versus trade it and live off it.
Support and Resistance is theirs too huh? The video I produced covers this topic unlike anything anywhere… least of which ForexMentor lol. Noble has his version and it’s a laugh. It has one slide and its no better at teaching you S&R levels and how to use them than the rest of the useless garbage pushed on the net.
The genuine article is starring you right in the puss pal… I am the one you read about and knew existed but never met. I do more and have done more in this business than anyone over at ForexMentor. I had so many people following me in the late 90’s and my signals moved the Standard and Poors market. You do not even know who you are talking about. I’m much more than three letters… “ICT”. Sweetpip dubbed me that… and it stuck.
How I built the concepts I call mine together is original. Nobody does it like I do. If they did… I would say so. I give credit when and where credit is due. Frankly, I’m a bit put off that I would even be compared to the likes of someone who claims credit for others work. This is precisely why my Name is on WHAT I SHARE. It is mine and not a soul can or will claim it as theirs.
My videos show you what I want you to see… you think I have anything but genuine sincerity when it comes to my efforts here? I can tell you this takes a considerable amount of time to produce and edit and well… muster the energy quite frankly. I’m not looking for an appology for your inaccurate posts. I’m not suggesting you stop posting… I am stating you are wrong in the most direct sense and your information is misrepresentation and you give yourself too much credit for revealing a fictional perspective on what the obvious shows quite contrary.
Knowing he has the power to delete any posts in his thread, I’d like to say that it speaks very well to Michael’s character that he leaves ‘dissenting’ posts intact and addresses them head-on.
I for one didn’t need the explanation given above, although I appreciate it, and understand ICT’s desire to respond.
For those of you who have seen any of Peter Bain’s material, you may have noticed (as I did) that he just seems a little shady. He comes off a bit like a slimy used-car dealer, and I just can’t shake the feeling of ‘con-man’ when watching him. Not unlike many other so-called forex educators.
To be fair to the man, I don’t know him personally, but this uneasy feeling is not something I get AT ALL from ICT, so for me, on an intuitive level, I know who I believe, and who is the “real deal”.
I will finish by saying that your work here is very much appreciated, Michael, and is very helpful to a lot of people (just take a look at the poll if you need a reminder of that!) so I hope you are not discouraged by this sort of silly side-tracking.
I mean, ICT’s been pretty open about not having invented most of these individual tools and techniques. The people who actually invented them are probably long dead - Fib ratios, and pivot points were probably first used by people in the 20’s and 30’s, and market flow is a basic trend analysis tool that’s been in use since forever. The thing that ICT is doing that isn’t being done anywhere else, is showing us in great detail how to use these tools effectively, and how they work together to give us a significant edge in the market. I mean, the tools aren’t even the important part, it’s the fact hat he’s teaching us how to apply them in a level of detail that is completely unheard of in the internet. He’s also open and available for questions all the time, and is highly interactive with all the people following him. He’s also doing this for free, because he just wants to help new traders become successful.
Basically, disparaging ICT for not crediting the inventors of very public, very common tools, when he’s providing you a comprehensive method for trading is sort of like complaining about the man who’s teaching you how to build a house because he isn’t giving credit to the person who invented the hammer. It just seems a little bit silly to me.
My only criticism of ICT is in regards to the wait for new trading information. But I’m not really concerned about that - I taught guitar for a while, so I can understand the issues with teaching things to people. I had about 15-20 students at one time. Even with so few students, I was overwhelmed with developing lesson plans, practice exercises, answering questions, giving lessons, etc. I can imagine ICT has more than 15-20 students, and his lesson plans are probably SIGNIFICANTLY more complicated than the super-beginner level plans I was making for my students. That, and he’s trading full time while teaching all of us. And has 5 kids.
Giving it further thought, I think I should retract my criticism, and replace it with a new statement:
ICT, where do you find the time to get these lessons, and PTC’s done, while replying to all of our questions and emails, and handling 5 kids, and trading full time? Have you slept at all over the past 6 months?
Why does it always kick off when I take the day off? My sincere apologies if I instigated any of it by bringing up the topic of Vic Noble. I guess the record needed to be set straight anyway. OK…focus focus focus. No more tomfoolery from me.
Folks let’s keep it moving along… no need to dwell on the matter. What’s done is done, however it may appear to the those looking for conspiracy or chaos… I’ve answered the matter. I will not remove it for documentation and disclosure purposes.
“…with a classic price pattern commonly referred to as a “1,2,3 pattern” I first learned from a goofball named Ken Roberts… in 1994!”
Hi Michael,
Well, no need to dwell on this any longer as you correctly mention, but I couldn’t resist on a couple of items you referred to. Funny you should mention that name, I got the same sales pitch from Ken Roberts, but mine was in April 1996. We must be close, age-wise that is! Of course, my development was thousands of miles behind yours over the years, but that’s a different story of no interest to anyone…I also received the same pitch from George Angell, the one where he drives a convertible in a black and white picture. I did not shell the money to buy that one though…I also received another one regarding seasonal tendencies in commodities from Jake Burnstein. Did you ever hear that one? Very funny story too. This guy is still around too.
“…I never seen a mentor teach SMT…”
Just as a reference point here, and with absolutely no intent to stir any commotion again, I have read in a similar thread elsewhere (of which I would gladly provide details if asked) about some other professional traders, Art Krantz and Mannie Sheevers (not sure if these names mean anything to you) who claim to have been utilizing this tool in seminars from early 1998 to 2003. Maybe you know them, maybe you don’t, it doesn’t really matter anyway, just bringing it forth, that’s all. Maybe they took this from your teachings, who knows.
And with that, I’ll go to the back of the room again and keep quiet. Good luck and good trading to all!..
Seeing this is the very times I cite I used them in my personal website… please share with us these Gents material… you see I already see goobers on other forums cut and pasting my material under their posts and seeing others rant over it as if they were some how responsible for the material, lol. This is why I added Babypips tag in the beginning of the videos as well. So let’s see it… I’ve never heard of either of them.
Yes I Googled my name and ICT and Forex as tags and I was alarmed at the number of places my work has traveled… and the folks who remove my name from the posts and assume it as theirs… and many of it is from the Babypips threads I started.
This is why I went to videos and not text… it’s going to take work for them to look like a pro, versus copy & paste their way to recognition.
Google the thread titles and see how many forums have me and my work copied… and note the dates they appear… always after my post in Babypips.
The other screenname I used TheInnerCircleTrader here was taken by me for this very reason… and folks thought I was kidding when I stated why I had two names here. The same thing happened in late 90’s… copycats and goofballs looking to spread misinformation under my nicks. You see it here now don’t you? lol
I found a forum that has a flake pretending to be me and Petefader! Our very posts letter by letter.
Video is the medium I use and this is why now… so if this slows the sharing, at the very least you understand why now. I take pride in my work… and I don’t mind helping a person with tools and concepts… but I’m not here to make a name for somebody else on my sweat and tears and fortunes I lost perfecting this practice.
Some folks are sharing it with others and credit me and thats all I ask… but I have seen websites selling my stuff as well. As soon as I mention a concept or tools application… it goes on a forum the next day. MAny times with others saying “oh yeah we were doing that in the good ole day’s” but where is the use real time? Where is the record of it before it made it’s way on Babypips by me? It’s a ghost… it isn’t there.
I mentored thousands of traders in the 90’s… I mean literal thousands and my SMT Smart Money Tool overlay was birthed in Futures markets not Forex… and it was on the Dmark, Pound, Franc and Yen… and I inverted the Dollar to look for divergence patterns with the Greenback as well. I posted these in a Newsletter I produced every night by 7pm… the title was “The Inner Circle MarketScope”… I covered stocks, commodities, S&P and Bonds and of course Currencies. I plotted the line charts and pointed to levels the divergence formed and nobody was the wiser… until I did a seminar on Mirc. I publicly traded 5000 to 90k in one month real time and I went like a wildfire across the forums and Mirc boards.
I even posted this SMT concept in FOREXMENTOR’s membership forum… as my user name there is Dynamo… it’s date stamped there too… I have so many crumbs over the net… it boggles my mind when I think about what I have done and where I have traveled in my time in trading lol.
I might video that post in Forexmentor just to show you it’s me there too… several years ago… and it went right over their heads. I’ve read a forum tonight that has mention of my thread here and it’s even got a few familiar faces and avatars on both forums… and the SMT post I made on my first thread was on March 20, 2010… the next day… this other forum has it talked about… and the guy says to another poster… yea that’s nothing new… we did that in the stone ages and then he returns to discussions on moving averages and indicator trading lol… as if!
I just viewed Vic’s newest sales pitch weekly video for their LC course and guess what he is tauting now? A new scalping course with similiar times of the day and similiar trading technique… what did I say I was working on in a few videos back? A complete sessions course… and it continues.
This is too funny… Mom if you could see me now :5:
Well honestly, Im not a great sleeper and I have a lot of free time to spend on hobbies and such… but since I’ve resumed the role of mentor again… I’ve run short on extra time or “free time” lol.
It takes a lot out me somedays and when you do, finally, see what I’ve been working on… you will revisit this post and reflect… there is a lot going on… on the other side of your screen folks. Trust me.
Big difference.