What Every New & Or Aspiring Forex Trader... Still Wants To Know

To me, smart money isn’t any one person or group of people, it’s just anyone that is taking the low risk/high reward side of the trade. You could be part of the ‘dumb money’ move on Monday, then end up being part of the ‘smart money’ move on Thursday.

The market behaves in a way that is abstractly efficient. It is drawn to certain zones to absorb the liquidity in that area and then move on to the next zone as a result of the net order flows having a bid/offer bias. Smart money plays in step with these natural efficiencies, and dumb money generally fights it. Once the odds are stacked for price to move back into it’s range, rather than continue making new highs, anyone buying the breakout is ‘dumb money’. The ‘mechanics’ of the market offer high reward/low risk to short the false breakout, and that’s what smart money participated in.

or I could be way off, haha! Everyone tries to view the market with a certain set of eyes in order to make sense of what’s going on, and that’s how I do it. If the concept plays out over and over again, it’s a working concept to me, and I’ll use it so long as it continues to explain market price action!

ICT, I wish I had your ability to keep up on Blogs and threads like you, gooood job buddly, but I have to ask NJ for vacation??? Dude, Outer Banks, Jekyll Isld, Keys, or even Hilton Head, but NJ :30:. Anyway just stopped in to say HI. The Ever Salutary VIPER

Wildwood! I can’t think of a more appropriate place for the main man to vacation right now :35:

YouTube - ‪Paul Weller plays ‘Wild Wood’ live (Live Wood)‬‏

“High tide - mid afternoon
People fly by in the traffics boom
Knowing - just where you’re blowing
Getting to where you should be going.
Don’t let them get you down
Making you feel guilty about
Golden rain will bring you riches
All the good things - you deserve now”

Hope you can find your way out, brother :wink:

Have a good one Michael!
I’m currently toughing it out in the Whitsundays so I can share your pain :wink:

Hello Ladies & Gents,

Alishijo - would you please elaborate?

Many thanks.

It would be my pleasure, Autodidact…

(N.B. Server is GMT+1)

Regards

Thats great - thanks Alishijo, didnt expect such a thorough response! You’re too good.

greatly appreciated.

Autodidact.

ps: all the ICT-haters…??? Huh?? WTF???

Great thread ICT, i can’t believe it’s taken me til now to get involved with it. Hordane 1st mentioned this thread in a skype trading room last jan/feb and it took me til now to follow up on what he was telling us about ur use of COT, futures, fibs etc. i’ve only read as far as page 70 atm but i’ve viewed most of the videos numerous times now. Every time i watch them i get a little more from them. Excellent thread, brilliantly presented and much appreciated. i must return now to my catching up:)

Alishijo — not to be nit-picky here, but just in case anyone is confused about time zones —

— daylight saving time in London (British Summer Time) is currently GMT+1,

— and [B]your Alpari server time (Central European Summer Time) is GMT+2.[/B]

Consequently, 8am in London is 9am on your charts.

Thanks for making that clear to everyone, Clint. What I wanted to tell people was ‘where’ my server was based, but in doing so I acknowledge I may have confused some. What I should have stated is that my server is based in western Europe, which is one hour ahead of London time. One hour ahead of ‘current’ London time, British Summer Time, would be GMT+2.

Regards

I realize that today lacks liquidity because of the July 4th holiday in the States, but I saw a trade line up with a bunch of confluence levels so I figured I would take the trade.

Cable Turtle Soup Trade

The first chart is a 1 hour chart, with a fib overlaid on the most prominent bearish swing, showing price has bounced up to the 62% retracement. A good place to start looking for long term resistance which may provide a high probability short trade. A red line denotes last weeks high which is just below the 1.6120 level. I assumed that everyone who went short over the last 2 weeks may have resting stops at the 6120 level and there may also be breakout guys looking to go long if price breaks last weeks high as well.

I then zoomed down to a 15 minute chart and noted that prior to LO, the cable rocketed up approx. 70 pips, blew out all the resting stops, triggered possible longs of the break out traders and was then rejected at MR2. It then laid down a set of railroad tracks, showing that all the longs above the 6120 level were absorbed, and there was no more demand to push price upward.

I then switched over to the SMT and compared the Euro to the Cable. The bearish divergence is fairly obvious as the Cable traded higher, and the Euro twice failed to make new highs, showing what I interpreted as distribution and lack of demand.

Seeing that the Cable was in a longer term bearish trend when compared to the Euro, and was trading well into the sell zone, I felt confident that the Cable provided the greater opportunity.

I entered short at 6120 because I was confident in the trade, and a 30 pip stop had me well past 10 pips above the high of the railroad tracks.

The Cable did provide a OTE off a smaller swing lower, but I was content with my entry at the market.

I had a final take profit set for 6055, which would have been just below Sundays lows. Price began chopping around and I ended up exiting manually at the 6070 level for around 50 pips. 5 minutes later price went down, clipped my final TP and shot back up again, but I’m happy with 50 pips.

Cheers,

Overnight short on cable (The entry was actually just to the left on the big bull candle that pushed up through OTE):

Confluence:
OTE from the london high
OTE on daily swing
MR1
Daily MF Down

Risk Parameters:
SL: 20 pips
Target: 120 pips

Notes:
This wasn’t a quick one, but the price action on the longer term TF (i.e., daily) made me comfortable holding for the roughly 24hrs this trade panned out over. ~120 pips in a day, but more importantly, this trade represents 6R - Happy with that!

Edit: I have a view that cable may continue the current daily swing down to around 1.5750 (See the 25 Jan) - or at the very least, around the 1.5910 near term support. but I’m happy to get out where I did, with a nice tidy profit. I don’t like holding longer than a day, gives me the jitters!

Saying hello for the first time in this thread, though I’ve been lurking for quite some time.

I’m not yet qualified (to my own mind) to know the accuracy of this trading schema but I’ve given it a very brief shot finally, and within the first week or so I’m up 3.6% on demo trading, mostly shorting cable from what turned out to be daily highs. It could be sheer luck still, of course, but time will prove that out.

“Big Picture” data is being drawn from a few places; I can’t seem to post links yet but needless to say for those that have been following innercircletrader I’ve been watching COT, dollar index and Treasury 2, 5 and 10 closely for clues to the overall market.

Mistakes so far have included:
a) Not letting the trade ‘run’ when winning, been cutting it off sharply at a 50 pip TP against a 25 SL
b) Not setting the SL quite far enough above one of the highs

Advantages I have:
a) Incredible discipline; I’m not one to mess up money management basics. Ever.
b) Ability to read forum posts unemotionally, no personality issues with anyone
c) Strong math background
d) I can be taught.

Disadvantages:
a) I’m new(ish), been following here and there for about 1.5 years but quiet until now
b) Large holes in my knowledge about all this; "I don’t know what I don’t know"
c) Time limited; I have multiple small businesses and they can take priority at times.
d) Technical/scientific background. Not financial at all.
e) Tendency to overtrade; trying to shake that off.

Regardless, 3.6% a week… if only 1/3 of that can be maintained, that’s still an incredible victory. A week is statistically too short to be relevant of course, but let’s say it was more encouraging than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.


In any case… I have a big question mark in my mind about many things, that perhaps someone here might be able to fill in a bit…

  1. Supposedly the bulk of the market has to do with bank trading; big US, Euro and other banks. Question, how many big banks are there that make up 80% of this trading, is there a top twenty, or two hundred, or two thousand of them?

  2. Of this bank trading, what are the primary motivators, and is one motive outweighing most of the rest? I’m guessing it makes sense to hold various currencies in order to maintain one’s overall value position, i.e. hedging, is a main reason… perhaps another reason is simply pure arbitrage and cashing in on market information they have, perhaps yet another is “X customers simply need Y of currency Z today.” In other words, are banks aggressively looking to control the markets, or are they on the back foot themselves, just trying to hang on? Are there perhaps a few monstrously huge banks that traditionally operate in opposition to others, or is it total anarchy, or… ?

  3. I’m guessing that each bank has a number of employees whose job it is to come in and start placing currency orders, or tell computers to do it, as per 2) above. Has anyone ever known such a person, and in general, what sort of scenario is it for them? A casual environment of people sitting at terminals that come in at eight, chat casually and then take a relaxed lunch? Or a heated, competitive environment run by a seasoned financial wizard, with apprentices on the front lines as banks ‘compete’ perhaps? Maybe it’s utterly different, almost scientific in nature where data mining types refine strategies to feed to a computer, and it’s all very ‘human hands off’ except for guiding strategies? Or are all banks totally different?

Simply looking for a basic understanding of the business. Does anyone here have a sense of these things, or is it just a sort of black box to everyone?

The reason I ask in this thread, is that the core principles here seem to be more ‘top down analysis’ than technical; with a strong emphasis on really knowing what’s going on.

Apologies for the tl;dr first post, I thought it would be more effective summarised this way. Eager to hear any insights that anyone might have.

Hello Desmond, the most solid info about fx market participants can be found in this report http://www.bis.org/publ/rpfxf10t.pdf. I doubt you will find out more about “inside”, but you can always look for a movie “Floored”, at very least it is very interesting.
You mentioned fixed SL/TP, so a read of Clints post in this thread should help you reconsider that.
http://forums.babypips.com/newbie-island/39289-reward-risk-ratio.html
PS. Sorry to write this but your b) Ability to read forum posts unemotionally, no personality issues with anyone is not an advantages but rather a fact that you are not an “a hole”

Welcome aboard Desmond!

According to wikipedia

Top 10 currency traders: % of overall volume, May 2011
[B]Rank Name Market share[/B]
1 Germany Deutsche Bank 15.64%
2 United Kingdom Barclays Capital 10.75%
3 Switzerland UBS AG 10.59%
4 United States Citi 8.88%
5 United States JPMorgan 6.43%
6 United Kingdom HSBC 6.26%
7 United Kingdom Royal Bank of Scotland 6.20%
8 Switzerland Credit Suisse 4.80%
9 United States Goldman Sachs 4.13%
10 United States Morgan Stanley 3.64%

Again according to wikipedia:

[B]Hedge funds as speculators[/B]

About 70% to 90%[citation needed] of the foreign exchange transactions are speculative. In other words, the person or institution that bought or sold the currency has no plan to actually take delivery of the currency in the end; rather, they were solely speculating on the movement of that particular currency. Hedge funds have gained a reputation for aggressive currency speculation since 1996. They control billions of dollars of equity and may borrow billions more, and thus may overwhelm intervention by central banks to support almost any currency, if the economic fundamentals are in the hedge funds’ favor.

An acquaintance of mine works in FX for the Commonwealth Bank here in Australia. I don’t know the minutae of his job, but from what I understand the bulk of his work is on behalf of the bank’s business clients, in what amounts to a hedging role for their international transactions.

Hope that helps!

Funny you should ask this,

I was chatting to a guy that is going to be working for JP Morgan, a week or so back, he was telling me about an a mate of his in managed funds, he watched while this guy did some “stop hunting” during the Asian session. Basically what happened was the guy at the desk dumped 3 lots of 50 million into the market, causing a spike, taking out stops & netting a tidy 5 million, all in a space of a few minutes. They sounded pretty casual about it :36:
Was an interesting evening’s chat & he promised to help me out on my endeavors in the future. Haven’t heard from him since lol!

I am truly embarrassed that it didn’t even occur to me to check a wiki with regard to basic information. Fascinating though! A mere 10 firms controlling roughly 80% of the bank activity… that comes down to perhaps ten department heads with phenomenal control over the market. To venture into the ridiculous for a moment, I wonder what changes when one or more of them goes on vacation!

As for our stop~hunting professional… this too is concerning. If I recall correctly, one of the comments that ICT made was something about large swings often occurring after typical stoploss setpoints were wiped out.

This brings one last question to my mind… is the ‘smart money’ all that much smarter because it has the bank’s information, or does ‘smart money’ not really have to be very smart at all, insofar as they are ‘brute force money’ anyway? Is it possible that a battle hardened small trader could actually be sharper at survival than the ‘big guys’… simply because they have so much leverage they don’t really need to rely on their wits?

I’ll be reading replies of course but shall try to stay a bit quiet, as it’s not my thread and I’m back to demo trading and learning. This is the first trading method that has worked out for me, so clearly and obviously… it’s time to give it a shot for a while and see what can be accomplished.

Daily

H4

H1

M15

GLGT!

Thank you for outlining my trades, saves me the time Ali :p. I’ve been trying to keep all my trades now to OTEs within OTEs.

Hahaha, going to have to agree with hellogoodbye on that one. Thanks Ali! =)

I’m not dead yet, I still am creeping every post on this thread, just been a little sidetracked to post any thorough analysis…
Been trading F/T this summer, with no distractions (including posting on the forums), I must saying it’s helped a lot on my analysis skills.

Emotionally, I am able to take trades when I see them, without second guessing now.
Ali, my respect goes to you for putting so much work into this thread still! I could never keep up! But I’m going to try and get in the habit of participating again. =)

Regards,
Clark