Thank you…
Started after my last message… Started reading the book Nature of Trends … Still reading the posts… and trying… its very interesting… there’s been a lot of discussions… feels like am learning… thank you… Happy to have landed here …
I am on a mission its very interesting as its intriguing… I’ve managed to take the leads in terms of steps,
- Read some basis to understand Barros Swing, Nature of trends
- Use the indicator on charts to observe, digest and understand the MTF concept. I found this a bit confusing, but I think its mostly me considering I am a newbe… But managed to understand it now… Have played around with difference TF’s M5, M15 / H1, H5 / H1, D1 etc observed the flows… I think this is a continuous process of learning…
- Tried to draw the trendline channels… as in the two screenshots below… I think I need some critical comments here, when we mean channels are these meant to be parallel… I saw some sample carts from folks in the thread, where the channels were intersecting… Need to understand how to use this exactly and the pros and cons of not getting the channel right…
- Now need to understand if this is right before I start to identify the breaks (20 pip movements) etc… but want to ensure that I understand the basics right and see the trends moving before I do that…
Rel n all I can see how hard you’ve been working through this thread trying to educate and how everyone has been helping each other… I am coming in late but trying to read through the thread and taking the advices to catchup… please bear with my ignorance… I hope to get there too… as a more savy trader not just as one who makes the quick wins… Please let me have your suggestions…
I was not sure what to use in the charts that I have put down below, slanting channels, horizontal… etc… need guidance… if what you see is fine… or if there is a fundamental flaw.
:
I suggest you use Linear Regression Channels instead of drawing trendlines (as Relativity wrote…), and don’t use too much Tfs of Barros Indi.
Use a 30 min chart. Set Barros for H5(300 min) & Daily(1440min), then draw a Lreg channel from the bottom (and vice versa) to the top of a daily leg… if price makes a new high, then draw the channel to this new high and so on…
Thinghs should be clearer…
Look @ this example…
Thank you, I now need to start finding the break, 20 pip movement … I suppose… I was thinking from the initial msgs that this works immaterial to the TF… ie, diff time frames, maybe I was wrong…
I am going to work through the weekend… any suggestions or sample charts that you can share… I know there ones earlier from Rel’s… I will take a look at them for sure.
Once I setup my chart I will share again to check my understanding… I look upon you all to guide me through this learning process please… thank you…
I’d like to know how many time you are in Forex? At which degree is your basic knoweledge?
I ask this coz IMHO, if you don’t have enough a basic knoweledge your risk to confuse yourself in this thread…
Relativity is a mathematical genius…he sees beyond, so it’s not easy (at least for dumbs like me :8:) to see the same things he sees whitout a deeper knoweledge of the market.
[B]If Relativity permits[/B], I suggest you a different approach: forget (for the moment) every indicators and channel, and barros, and 20 pips rule and so on…
Just open a 30 min chart…naked
Then read Steidlmayer on Markets, coz, I think it could give you the basics about [B]WHAT[/B] Market is and [B]HOW[/B] it works…
Obviously Market changed (Electronic, 24 H etc.) since 1984 BUT… if you don’t know it’s intimate nature you’ll never understand why it goes up and down in a (apparently) random way…
In the same time you can read Jankowsky’s book, which deals with the other side of trading: [B]YOU![/B]
After done that you will be ready to read the other books suggested (Barros, Dalton etc…)and the whole thread, and starting to apply what you learned into the real trading… maybe to Relativity level…who actually is back to the naked chart…
Thank you Rel and Az,
I understand what you mean, what I see is this, I have setup based on what was advised for a few currency pairs, as below
,
I am trying to understand how I can find the breakout, can I use the Lreg channel on history data to figure this out.
I am here to invest time and figure out a working approach and willing to try, see, work and learn… so thank you for the willingness to guide and coach… I have not had this opportunity at all, so thank you again.
You’re on the wrong way bro… plz. read my previous post… and follow just one pair.
Sorry the mails crossed… will do…
I have a day job ( its not necessarily enough to survive and I am find trading very interesting and want to crack it), but have been spending time later in the evenings and early in the morning, went through TA of Financial Markets Murphy for a basic understanding … I can understand whats being explained in The nature of Trend… accept and understand its a combination of TA, fundamentals and sentiments… have been watching for a while… now I think its time to adopt an approach, learn further and trade for profits…
But am not looking at quick wins… I just want to be sure I can gague my learning and keep making progress consistently… I was reading through the initial phases of the thread… and realized all the conversations were ground up… when you were asking questions and Rel was coaching… I’ve been trying to grasp the approach from there…
I will continue reading the books though in parallel… … I believe I can as I have the feeling I am learning now… and I do not necessarily take short cuts… the process seems fun…
Thats me… 
DONE… I start with the books right now… thank you … but will get there…
Toying around with relationship of VWAP and your MP or Volume Strips (I found Interesting corrispondences…)
(btw. your chart is too small to understand it…)
Next step for me will be the concept of CVD (cumulative volume delta) and Volume Acceleration. Unfortunately seems not possible to implement those indi on MT4 cause of not right tick data.
There’s an Italian guy who implemented (and rents…) for Multi Chart software (and Zenfire datas), togheter other indis to follow the Algorhitmic Trading… Actually, more than 60% of transactions are made this way…
Sorry bro, but I don’t fully agree…
Market has changed. Institutionals trade using VWAP and volumes are the key to understand their movements… As I said, > 60% of the whole market is made by Algorithmic Trading Machines…
The use of math & statistical formulas, other than microseconds executions demostrates that indicators matters…
We can’t use an obsolete approach to this kind of market… So, we need the right indis to follow them, and VWAP is one of them.
It can’t be the only one, coz we need the right volume indis (e.g. CVD, Book Pressure etc.), but just following it with the aid of conventional volume indi (e.g. best volume) and a simple MACD can lead us to surprising observations…
What do you see in this chart? There is an entry opportunity with potential Risk/Reward Ratio of 1/6 and many others with (at least) 1/2, 1/3, just using VWAP and MACD, some confirmed by Volume too, and I’m sure that would have been confirmed by CVD and Book Pressure…
[QUOTE=Relativity;335271
But the nature of buy / sell / bid / ask never changes.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, it’s OK: this is the basis of the Markets.
Market is a “place” to interconnect sellers and buyers. First of all we have sellers, coz if there’s nothing to sell…there’s nothing to buy…
The sellers bid their items and buyers ask for that items. They must agree upon a price to make the trade. So, price exploits different levels to find that agreement (i.e. when price is perceived as Fair by both sides of the trade, and this perception is called VALUE). That agreement concludes the trade. But, for a lot of reasons, price can’t stay at that level forever… so the cycle starts again…and again…and again.
That’s Auction Market Theory…
As you say that, you accept Auction Market Theory… but you said Volume, and not Price… Why?
You said volume, because in a big market (i.e. we’re not here to sell just a cow, or one share of a stock), what moves and supports price movements is volume.
So, what if we could know that just NOW a big order hitted the market on the bid side (or in the ask side), while the price still not moved from his level? Don’t you think we would be ahead of the herd? Would you buy something now?
What I’m talking about these new volume indicators is just getting more data (i.e. informations), not dealing with the thousands of wrong indicators used in actual trading.
E.g. If we are in a Fruit Market and comes in a guy who starts to buy the whole stock of apples on sale (i.e. a big order on ask side), what we do expect price will do next? Wouldn’t you bet the price will raise?
Practical trading is collecting informations to be able to make a choice… When we look at our charts we gather informations. The more accurate are the informations the better is for our decisions.
What I want you to know is I’m completely dipped in the bid/ask concept (and as you said… this never changes)… and if I see that guy buying apples, well, I run to buy apples at the very next price…because I have the right informations… People who comes in later in the Fruit Market (and didn’t see the guy…), i.e. the “herd” (i.e. the losers) …will buy apples at much higher price. They’re not dumb, but they hadn’t the right informations, or had later than me…
Market Profile based just on prices is obsolete. In fact, you use Volume Profile. VWAP is just another way to show Volume distributions, but it adds eventually the SKEW (and this is your beloved statistic… ) of that distribution…
The new volume indicators (based on the most accurate, and up to date, data feed) just adds more key informations… How could this be bad?
When you buy…why you do it? Do you buy coz trend is up (context) and price comes out a bell distribution of your MP? Or because there’s a (presumed) support level and price retraced 20 pips?
Would you still buy if the distribution has a negative skew and there’s no volume to support that move?
Be sure, my friend… I won’t chase the tail… I wanna be very near the head…
I’m working hard, and each information in my learning comes to me in a foreign language (so doubling the effort to make…)… This time I suggest something in my language to read and listen to…
And because I well understand my native language I can tell you this guy isn’t saying stupid thinghs… It’s just a little genius like you…and made a lot of hard work…
p.s. When a Doctor prescribes a CT Scan, or a MR Scan instead of an X Ray… He’s not already making a Diagnosis… He’s gathering informations using up to date technology…
Trading is like Medicine: Collecting Informations (Sign and Simptoms, Lab analysis, Instrumental examinations etc.), Elaboration of these Informations to Make a Diagnosis and then Prescribe Therapy… Would a Doctor rely upon obsolete technology?
Also the psycological aspect is similar: when one is wrong the consequences can be very serious: In the case of Medicine… no return ones… 
Yup bro, nothing to say about it…
In fact, new volume indis are to be used in Fx Futures… and there we can see their validity… Then we can trade the spot market using these datas…
(Actually, we trade Spot just coz we are undercapitalized, not because is the best way to trade…)
In the same time, we can’t deny the relationships between VWAP and PVP (and the price itself). These have the same meanings either in Futures or in Spot…
Btw, I used the MACD coz I saw in that Italian guy’s charts a similarity to volume indis in spotting divergences. I.e. price @ key levels (e.g. 3rd SD, whatever is the SKEW, or a retracement to 1st SD or VWAP—>following the SKEW direction).
Anyway, I know this is just an approximation for MT4 and Spot Market… In fact (apart from the observation of these MT4 charts), I’m looking forward to see if, with a reasonable fee I can get a reliable Futures Data Feed to apply the new indicators… This is the nearest thing to the head we can do…
Wow I thought this thread was dead and I come back to give rel an update on How I’m doing and bam its alive lol.
I’m pretty happy that other people are finding this stuff useful, and I goes say its been damn useful for me.
These days I’m catching runs of 100-300 pips using the very basics that rel taught here, I plan to go live near the end of April with this system and I’m pretty confident I’ll do pretty good.
Just in case anyone wants to know what my “prescription” for market eyeglasses is and how I figure out which was best for me ill post it here.
First I tried putting everything rel posted here on my charts but then I just left one swing indicator on my charts (rel your multiple time frame Barros indi was too much for me) and thats it, nothing else. All I do is have the chart set to a really high time frame such as daily usually, and then draw tend lines and wait for them to be confirmed by having at least two bounces and then I wait for price to approach either the top or bottom and then I zoom in (aka go into a lower tf usually 1HR) and draw trend lines at that level and wait for it to break out of the trend and thus this means that it is going to bounce at the higher tf and then I just let price rally until it gets close to the opposite trend line, and once I get a good 20 or 30 pips profit ill move my s/l to break even and move it up slowly as price gets more profit. Also when I open a trade I’ll usually put a s/l outside if the trend line in the higher tf. Ill post an attachment with a chart showing an example later tonight as I’m at work right now.
Please do post your prescription… its all very interesting… am reading the books Rel & Az suggested and am in parallel reading through the threads…
hey so sorry I didnt post a chart yesterday but I was pretty busy, anyways heres two charts of the same pair for a trade I put I think yesterday morning. at the moment of writing its at around 70 pips profit, it says 710 cause its .1 pips lol but anyways to talk about the chart, so I see from the daily chart that price has broken out of the slightly opening range(dont have that drawn in as I like to keep my charts clean and free of anything i’m not using, though I will redraw previous trend lines if the need arises / maybe if i’m looking at a higher tf) near the top and is in a downward trend channel. I know this channel is confirmed because of the price bouncing off 5 times total off the sides of the channel (this is the one in blue in the daily chart with the red downward sloping line at the top.) when I entered price was near the top of the channel as we can see in the hourly chart, I entered when it was just getting close to the channel though now I see that I should have waited until it broke past that red upward sloping trend line as this would mean that it was reversing from that minor upward trend. regardless it still went through. I had my s/l a bit higher than usual as I felt that I had entered a bit too early and needed to give it “room to breathe” but this trade would have been perfect if I had waited until it broke past the upward red line. truly all I do is watch for when price approaches a trend line in a higher time frame, and then go into a lower time frame and find a trend line that is going in the opposite direction of the higher tf and wait until price breaks through that lower trend line and then watch the pips flow
of course its not a 100% method and along with this win I still got two losses that are now just about covered by this win and now any profits more from this win will be actual profits and not just recovering losses from two previous loses. the beauty of this system is that if price isnt going your way then you know within at the most 50 pips because if price breaks through the higher tf trendline then you know price is going for a big reversal, (and thats where you can make HUGE profits) but i havent hit any of those yet but i’m always on the lookout. and if price does go your way you know because it will have a good strong movement after the break of the lower tf trendline. also once I get profits above 30 pips I try to move my stop loss to at least break even because then i’ll at least not lose anything if it decides to reverse completely, which does happen.
anyways heres the hourly chart
AUDUSDMAR27HR.png picture by luis_hernandez_maciel - Photobucket
and heres the daily chart
AUDUSDMAR27DAY.png picture by luis_hernandez_maciel - Photobucket
I only blocked out the account number and my name even though its a demo account lol but yeah, I’d like if you could comment on this rel and if anyone has questions feel free to ask, but truly listen to what rel says, the advice is good. more than anything I think the thing that helped me the most come to this conclusion was rel saying we gotta find our own prescription. somethings work best for some and some things work best for others, just take the basics from this thread and build up.
Hey, Luis H.M. … Why did you blocked your name into the charts…if your complete name is in the chart’s title?
Anyway, I think you got from this thread just a bit more attention to price action…(You don’t use Barros, or Lreg Channels etc.) and… for the rest it’s the good old swing trading, looking @ trendline bounce or break & mtf approach to refine your entry, with all its strengths and weaknesses…
Nothing to say about it… but I don’t know if it’s just as well in daytrading…
Yes I know the differences between futures and spot. And I know that spot permits us to leverage better…
Regarding “obsolete”, I meant obsolete way to gather datas (informations). The Basis (Timeless) are always the same. Swing traders can alway trade whit EOD datas of (futures) volume, easily avaliable for free. They draw a trendline (or a channel), spot for a volume divergence, wait for a break … and enter the market…
But, for daytrading is another story… we need the most up to date informations regarding volumes . All other datas are already into our charts…
Unfortunately, those Volume datats are not so easy to get in Forex Spot, so we must find a way (Vwap, or look to new indicators for futures volume (and we must pay for it… 
) etc.) to figure it out.
I post a chart of yesterday EU trade: there’s a reason why I entered there… risking just 7/8 pips and got a 50 pips move… i.e a potential 1:6 R:R Ratio… in a day with only 70 pips range…
(btw… I was greed and didn’t paid the necessary attention to a point in the second chart, so I had to bail for “just” 20 pips instead of 30/40)
This month i didn’t trade too much (I preferred looking @ the chart & study): 11 trades - 8 wins 3 loss. 2 loss were very small, coz. I closed the trade scared of a sudden movement, but I entered again for a win. Then I had a pending order (I wasn’t @ the screen) that wasn’t filled for 5 pips and went straight were I had my TP (80 pips) and more. Resuming, I was wrong in my analysis just 1 time of 12 and made 20% of my (50 $ 
) account…
That’s make me feel more confident than in the past, coz it means I actually understand better the Market…
hahahaha true didnt realize that till just now
yeah but see the thing is I think what Rel wanted to show us is that in a trading system theres no such thing as a method that will work with everyone (hence why he didnt give us his method straight up in the beginning) and that we have to come up with our own method that will work for us aka take the basics of his method, which is looking at how price moves empirically and slowly adding on indicators that reveal something deeper about price action and leaving out the indicators that lag and just mask/take up space on the charts.
for each of us each indicator is within a different category such as for me it is enough just to have a swing indicator while switching between tf’s and hand drawn trendlines, while for other people its more beneficial to have the multi tf barros swing indicator with lreg channels, and the GMMA
but regardless this thread helped push me forward into my own trading plan, and as for it being good in daytrading who knows, but all I know is that my trades have been doing good and I want to thank Rel for making this thread lol