How do you expect the Brexit vote to go tomorrow? DEFEATED

Even the people in his party, in his own wing of his own party, do not like him. Or do I mean they do not trust him?

Not saying he would be my choice, but that was a good speech he gave the other day.

Excellent link! Thanks for sharing.

UK parties are definitely making progress in negotiations its seen from Pound movement which has been updating highs this week. Bad news (failed Brexit bill) were good news actually as they reset stagnating talks between parties.

Do not like him, do not trust him, I think it’s the same. On a different note, it looks like that all these events will impact the GBP in a negative way on the markets at least in the next two months or so.

What’s a reputable source of UK news? Does that exist? Haha.

I’m reading headlines last week and this weekend, and I swore the news was positive on a no-deal exit not happening. But headlines today are the complete opposite.

For instance:

Did I miss something?

Some bathroom reading while you have a moment:

The 2 important bits I took away where:

U.K. politicians are tabling amendments to May’s revised proposals. They will be allowed to debate and vote on these on January 29.

This is also when pro-European politicians could hijack the Brexit process. A group of MPs will seek parliamentary approval to amend the government’s business plan for the day to prioritize debate on their Brexit proposals, rather than May’s — a daring upending of parliamentary procedure. If a majority of politicians approve that move, they will then have an opportunity to vote on a bill proposed by Conservative Europhile Nick Boles, mandating an extension to Article 50 if parliament cannot agree a way forward. This would make it legally impossible to force the U.K. out of the EU without a deal.

And this:

What about a second referendum?

May is adamant that the public has already had its say. However, an amendment proposing such a vote could be tabled on January 29, giving Europhile MPs an opportunity to voice their support for it for the first time.

What time is the vote and how do I watch?
Debate starts at 12:45PM and voting starting around 7PM, with the main vote happening most likely between 8-8:30PM.

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-vote-when-time-date-tuesday-watch-live-stream-tv-plan-b-result-deal-amendments/

It seems there is to be a second referendum - ! :smiley:

The people having listened to the machinations of project fear from anyone within or connected to the establishment for around 3 full years now, remain totally sceptical and unconvinced as to the motives of their “Betters” - They have decided on their own action plan !

Best source is here - Tony Connelly is usually ahead of the curve with his European contacts, is based in Brussels:

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The recent news I’ve been hearing more about is a martial law option in casee civil unrest spreads. Is that just fear mongering for the US public to consume or something actually being considered locally? It’s unbelievable to think about.

Martial law seems extremely unlikely.

That report likely referencing Northern Ireland - the police chief has asked for recruits from GB for riot training and upped recruitment by 300 officers.

If that fails then would use British army for back-up as in the past.

I agree with @peterma that any likelihood here revolves around The Northern Ireland / Eire issues (Protestant v Catholic) and the historical issues among those factions and the semi-common “enemy” (the English) - Much stored anger in there - whether any of it as anything to do with “Brexit”, or whether that is just the excuse for a good old “Barney” I’m less sure !

In some ways it’s a bit like the ongoing “crusades” which have followed us through the centuries and is currently reaching peaks again - with “Christianity” joining with the Judaism, to “rescue” them from the Muslims ! (Read “steal the oil” :wink: )

For those of us a little ambivalent about the whole “religion issue” the futility and madness of these situations is simply breathtaking !

[Edit - I’m not saying civil unrest is impossible on the mainland - but that will be a reaction to the perception among the common people that the “Establishment” is determined to “sell us out” and by whatever means to "remain - tied to the apron strings of Brussels ". THAT - If indeed it comes could be really quite serious !

OK, thought I’d do a series of little posts on Brexit and the Irish ‘Backstop’ which seems to be main issue holding up a deal.

The difficulty in Ireland and the border issue is about Identity.

@Falstaff is likely British, will carry a UK passport when abroad and uses a UK driving license. If you were to ask him ‘what nationality are you?’ there is one simple answer.

On the other hand I carry an Irish passport but my driving license is identical to Falstaff’s.

Ask me the same question and I answer ‘Irish’.

Now the difficulty:-

Some years ago a colleague and myself, both from N.I. were walking down Westmoreland St in Dublin when an old street beggar approached us. He held out a little cup and said “a little change for an Irishman like yourselves”.

My colleague was very cross and retorted ’ I am not Irish, I’m British’.

Then I made a huge mistake - I said to my colleague ‘James, you know that in England most people would refer to you as Irish’.

This stupid comment from me caused much offence because James is from the ‘Unionist’ community.

Will explain what this is to do with Brexit this evening.

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We were just 18 and in love. I popped the question and she said ‘yes’ - happy days.

In those times the man wouldn’t buy a ring until the question was asked, then the couple would head of to buy the ring together (wise approach in case she would say no).

Off we went in my dad’s car to Dublin - just over an hour’s drive. We went to the main shopping st and finally chose a ring. It had to be adjusted for size so a couple of hours walking about.

Then finally off home. We came to the border so the ring had to be hidden. First the Southern customs - wave on, then Southern police - wave on.

Then the dreaded UK customs, they would seize the ring and my dad’s car if they caught the smuggled ring - much tension as we approached. ‘Open your boot’ (trunk) was the polite command. The boot was empty, quick look at the back seat then ‘on you go’.

Sigh of relief, but it wasn’t over yet, we still had the security check.

'Where you coming from? asked the English soldier whilst looking at my driving license.

Rule 1 - always tell the truth: ‘Dublin’ . ‘Where are you going to?’ was the next question. ‘I’m going home’. ‘Where is home?’ (this was to check if I knew the address on the document)

‘What is the reg number of your car?’ (this was to check if I had likely stolen the car).

‘What were you doing in Dublin?’ - ''Just a day out" (had to break rule 1 just in case).

Ok,

Second sigh of relief, we were on our way with the prized engagement ring firmly on finger.

‘Why not just use one of the 100’s of little roads that criss cross the border?’ a UK friend once asked me? (unapproved crossings was the term)

The difficulty was lifting the car over the concrete bollards:
HardBorderUnApproved

This is the actual crossing that we smuggled the ring through:slight_smile:
HardBorderApproved

During these times Northern Ireland Troubles were raging. Wikipedia gives a decent timeline.

Wiki doesn’t tell how it was to try and raise a family and maintain a business in the midst of this hell. Each time a teenage son went out my heart would sink, no sleep until the door would open.
Various rules - if the paras stop you be polite, don’t answer back, never run away. If you see men with guns walk on, don’t look at them.

In business - never be partisan, stay out of politics, accept that insurance will walk away.

Although James and Peterma never came to blows and became the best of friends their different identities personified the troubles - two different peoples with different allegiances sharing the one space.

The conflict seemed endless, the hard border was a reflection of war. How could Peterma and James ever be reconciled?

For James when he went South, only because he had to attend a meeting, he was crossing an international border, so he would expect some customs and security, no big deal.

For Peterma and his new fiancée , well they never left Ireland.

So how could this be fixed, how is it possible that Peterma could feel Irish and James be British without either leaving home thus removing any cause for them to fight.

It is not possible.

But everything is possible.

The conflict dragged on, I remember seeing the billboards saying ‘25 years is enough’, When I spotted the first one I was despondent, it looked back 25 years and was bleak, yet 25 years on the right side of the chart was equally bleak.

Then the rumours began, started off as whispers, they were not believable, they had a word incorporated, that word was peace.

We had to caution our children, they had never experienced zero conflict, I could only remember it as a child at primary school.

My first memory of secondary school was missing the school bus home (I lived in the countryside) and walking along the bus stop street looking for the next bus home. Then I heard the metal squeak of brakes - it was two army jeeps stopping (they made the same sound as you hear on the movies).

The soldier ran across to me with a huge wooden bat raised in his hand, he crashed it down, missed my head by fractions, I felt the wind of it as it passed. Called me some bad names and I heard the word ‘Irish’ included.

I didn’t tell my parents, I knew the soldier missed deliberately, in my youth I guessed that he had probably a bad experience.

So rule number 2 was born - never run away.

In the market I usually advocate to buy the rumour, sell the fact.

Rumours are usually embellished, often the market gets carried away with the rumour and buys wildly when the hard reality of fact hits then sell it.

Would this rumour of peace be the same, I was skeptical, but there was something different, there were international players involved, people with good intentions and with money.

It started at a local level, then it spread to the UK and the ROI governments. It would have stalled at that point, as it had done before, but then the USA became involved. There was a huge push by the Americans to involve the EU.

By chance there was a politician in NI who was a peacemaker, he was a secondary school French teacher, his father had once taught him that ‘you cannot eat a flag’ - he was a civil rights activist, he could see the way to bring Peterma and James together so that not only could they live in peace but also that they could each prosper.

In business it was very frustrating.

We had to hide our engagement ring on the way North, my customers were hiding their purchases on the way South.

Most customers simply wouldn’t take the risk, even though they lived only a couple of hours away they would pay more for something that I could offer for less.

I could deliver the products but that meant an entire day filling forms, sitting at customs, just wasn’t worth the hassle.

Then came the single market. It was a revolution, no paperwork, no customs, just put it in the van and go - a huge market was opened in one fell swoop.

It was this chink of light that John Hume spotted, here was the possibility, it would take hard work, the EU would have to be on board, but this could be done - the hard border could 
dissolve.

The reflection of war would be gone forever.