The Russian govemment directed extensive activity, beginning in at least 2014 and carrying into at least 2017, against U.S. election infrastructure’ at the state and local level. The Committee has seen no evidence that any votes were changed or that any voting machines were manipulated.
While the Committee does not know with confidence what Moscow’s intentions were, Russia may have been probing vulnerabilities in voting systems to exploit later. Alternatively, Moscow may have sought to undermine confidence in the 2016 U.S. elections simply through the discovery of their activity
Depends on an interpretation of ‘interference’ - the US is founded and grounded on democracy - if i were Putin i would at least direct some resources in an attempt to undermine that foundation (he failed because the Founding Fathers had the wisdom of foresight).
Since that time Putin has created his own version of democracy in Russia - but that’s for the Russian people to to comprehend and not ours to interfere.
The conclusion should be based on evidence, not what the media wish to “report”.
The fact that they previously wished to suggest something without evidence does not mean that whatever they now report that does have evidence is therefore false. Its nothing to do with the media. Its to do with the evidence.
I thought I’d take my time on this one @peterma - to try to give an answer which might satisfy your natural scepticism.
There is a saying ; "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King…!"
So let us envisage such a land where a population of the blind is ruled over by a small hierarchy of one eyed “People” who told them what to do and kept them safe by looking out for lions and snakes etc. The blind people worked the fields under one eyed foremen and the society - the blind were kept alive but subservient and were grateful for the input of teh one eyed people - who naturally held a higher position and superior privileges and enjoyed the dependency of the blind people.
Some of teh one eyed people became “educators” who recited the “lessons” to the blind peoples children and to their own - in a way they became priests and priestesses and told a story that once upon a time all people had two eyes (Which was basically true) and they also said that some of the “two eyes” then became tyrannical and stole the eyes of most people at birth (Which was not true) - the fact was that a genetic mutation occurred which led to a badly connected optic nerve system and the “two eyes " found that this could be treated medicaly by a relatively simple operation to restore sight, when the affected people became adult - but due to the medication, the genetic mutation became more and more pravalent - and the afflicted were kept in protected environments until they were of age, by a version of the Welfare state. until the “Apocalypse” - which may ave been as simple as two eyed women finding “more satisfying” things to do than having children - came” and there were no longer sufficient “two eyes” to operate such a benevolent system. The “two eyes” with much regret decided to look after ther own interests first and simply left the old, the Blind and their occasional “One eyed” children to fend for themselves which was how this society came about. The old tried to look after the blind for as long as they could - and though they died off pretty soon, their valiant efforts did manage to get this “New society” to a state where they were independent enough to survive before they died off.
Now it was known that occasionally two blind people could have a one eyed child because the blind could be “Split” for a left eye sighted - or a right eye sighted and if two "Left eye splits mated - 25 % of their children would be left eye sighted - but there was no way of knowing which split each adult might carry (IF ANY) and infant mortality was of necessity high
So what do we know about people with one eye ?
They can see well enough but have a restricted field of vision, see only in 2 dimensions and find it almost impossible to judge distance because of the lack of the third dimension.
So apart from the stories they had invented to explain their existence and their common plight, “One eyes” would naturally feel their privileged position highly threatened by any potential “two eyes” and any “two eyeds” born to blind couples would be quiety terminated by the “One eyes”.
The number of “two eyes” born to one eyed couples would be higher but relying as it would on both being “Split” for the other eye - would still be micro small.
So it is then that the parents of a child afflicted with “two eyes” would chide their children if they soke of having two eyes or showing this afflictin in public - since tehy would almost certainly be instantly put to death by the other “One eyes” - or teh blind acting as instruments of the “One eyes” and acting as they had been educated.
Thus then is the context of your question and what would happen if such a “two eyes” sought to be elected into a leadership position by the blind and teh “One eyes” ?
Many of those we speak of here have had such experiences and since we started with him I cite Bret Weinstein - who could easily have been killed by Black Supremacist students at Evergreen College - for simply asserting his right and that of His students to equality.
One is led to ponder on how many of those students are now “protesting Police murders” in Minnesota ?
Nay mate - they should not be “seeking election” - WE should be begging them on bended knee to help us in our hour of crisis !
[Edit PS - apologies for the typos - must get an external keyboard - the laptop is getting very sticky on teh keys ! ]
There is simply no comparison between Chinese strategies in governing china and US policies in governing the US.
Of course, it is very much to the benefit of Marxists etc. to portray the institutions, the establishment, the judiciary, the government, of a “target” country to be inept and corrupt, as by this means they can gather popular support for these to be torn down. Their replacement of course would be a Marxist one-party state government run by the party for the benefit of Communism (i.e. the party).
It would be nice to have by means of a fair comparison, some pics of the “re-education” camps in Uygur province in China currently housing perhaps 1.5 million citizens -
oh wait, the Chinese don’t allow journalists into the region…
True, in Hong Kong the first violence came from the protesters side while in the US the police started it
Compare with Guantanamo
While in the US the President just calls them liars and false news
Gotta love how people on here jump on anything they disagree with, labelling it as ‘Marxist’, ‘TDS’, ‘far-Left’. Clearly only interested in hearing their own voices
Nevertheless, you are wrong to conflate Chinese government and US government. The two government styles and philosophies as well as the two societies are completely unrelated.
China has a vile, corrupt, aggressive, imperialistic and self-serving dictatorship, no better for the Chinese people than life servitude under mass-murderer Chairman Mao. The entire philosophy of communism rests on the subjugation of the individual, backed by state sanctioned violence and repression.
It is inevitable that anyone defending the Chinese government will be suspected of Marxists sympathies, as the government is run on Marxist lines and the Marxist movement has a long history of undermining public faith in democratic governance and institutions. If you don’t like that kind of labelling, change your politics.
I normally wouldn’t get involved in a Political discussion… and I don’t pretend to know a great deal about US Politics… Only the consistent one upmanship from both sides of the media who appear to believe that all US citizens agree with their view…
A view from afar (Australia) it appears that whatever President Trump says (or doesn’t say) is targeted by the left wing media and mercilessly lambasted until the next gotcha moment is ready to be exploited…
He refrains from doing a media release about the Rioting… He is mocked for not speaking… He comes forward and does a media release and gets mocked for standing in front of a church (really…) and because the Police and the National Guard is struggling to regain control… suggests the Military should step in during unprecedented times… and gets mocked again… it’s f@#king unbelievable to watch…
The economy is already on it’s knees and you get these moronic self obsessed groups destroying any resemblance of hope as the US comes out of lockdown…
The amount of rubbish going on in the US in the last 90 days or so… Has not been of the Governments making… COVID19, Lock Downs, Economic downturn, Floyd’s Death, Rioting, Looting etc, etc, etc…
It’s pretty much to the point Trump should just walk away and leave the office to The Democrats… and see if they can do a better job… which we know would not happen because of the depth of the issues.
I have US friends (Democrat supporters) stuck here in Australia due to the border closures who are now stressed about returning the States due to the chaos and anarchy throughout the country…
Sad, sad, sad state of affairs for such a great Country…
I have looked back to see if you could produce any convincing evidence or statistics to support your claims of police brutality here in the UK. It seems you did not reply.
Perhaps you couldn’t find enough evidence to be worth posting up on here. But you should post up what you have found out, what drove you to the conclusion you came to about the UK.
Hmmm… reminds me of a society - at times they elected their leader at other times the leader took control by force.
They saw themselves as two eyed. Very few one eyed persons could get into their society.
As for all those one eyed and blind people outside - they were to controlled within their own society by their leaders - the two eyed would rule, even provide help in the form of infrastructure and security - for which the one eyed and blind would pay by way of tax.
The two eyed hated the one eyed and blind - likewise the one eyed hated the blind and the two eyed - every class hated each each other class - division reigned.
Then there came someone who broke the mold. He said let’s all work together for each other - no more division.
All three groups decided they would kill this Person - they could not tolerate such thinking.
They were not successful and He still says that this thinking will work best
I thought you lived in the UK, in which case you would probably about this already. My mistake if you dont.
I’ll list a few, you can google the details yourself if you need to.
From a current case in Birmingham;
The inquiry includes incidents in which it is claimed that excessive force was used against black men who were shot with Tasers, the IOPC said. The inquiry started in April after video emerged of a police officer apparently beating a 15-year-old boy in the Newtown area. The officer was suspended from the West Midlands force after he appeared to knock the boy down with a punch before kicking him.
CCTV footage from the previous day apparently showing the same officer beating a black cyclist. The officer is alleged to be seen dragging the 44-year-old male off his bike before pulling down the man’s protective face mask, a female colleague holding the man down while the male officer appeared to punch the cyclist three times in the back.
27 February in the Handsworth area of Birmingham where Trevalie Wyse, a 30-year-old local black man, had witnessed a car crash. The same officer in the April incidents is seen ordering the man to the ground even though he was a bystander: he was then shot with a stun gun for failing to get down on the floor.
Remember this? Death of Jean Charles de Menezes - Wikipedia
Or if you prefer videos;
The list goes on, and its not just a recent phenomena. Police brutality against striking miners at Orgreave in 1984 left 123 injured and that was just one of many such incidents during the strike.
1961 CND March to Trafalgar Square.
The shooting of Mark Duggan, albeit it declared lawful, led to 5 nights of rioting in Tottenham in 2011where police brutality was shown nightly on television.
Many demonstrations, in London especially, attract small numbers of thugs looking for trouble and these people need dealing with. However, the police see unable to single out the trouble makers and we frequently see on TV images of police assaulting innocent bystanders or those demonstrating peacefully.
All I can say is , thank heavens UK police aren’t armed routinely or we would have a lot more trouble on our streets
You’ve found a few cases under investigation in which black males were injured. It remains to be seen whether these were incidents of unlawful police behaviour or lawful police actions to protect lives/property. These aren’t evidence of police brutality in the UK, they are evidence of investigations of alleged police brutality in the UK.
As for Jean Charles de Menezes, that arose from a case of mistaken identity during an anti-terrorist operation. This occurred in July 2005, so its a 14-year old case, and isolated in every way imaginable. In fact the The Metropolitan Police were actually prosecuted for this breach of their duties and duty of care to the public. In any case, de Menezes was not even black, so for you to raise his case in support of your argument on the back of the George Lloyd case in the US is spurious.
I can’t be bothered to go back over incidents in 1961 or 1984 as the gap in time since these to the present day suggests that nothing like these has occurred since, which is not bad for any society.
The shooting of Mark Duggan was justified. Duggan was black, but anyone else in his situation would probably have been shot also.
All in all, I think we seem to agree that finding evidence of police brutality in the UK is extremely difficult because it is so rare. UK police arrest about 700,000 people per year, but not every police/public encounter leads to any arrests.
With a police force of about 126,000 it wouldn’t be surprising if some of those officers were poor at following the police’s own rules. But to suggest the UK police has a police brutality problem is wrong.
What makes you think we agree on that? It may be less common than in the US, but it isn’t rare as a quick online search will show you. I am not going to list each and every occasion for you, just some examples.(which is more than you have done to support some of your statements)
The video links show for themselves that police brutality is alive and kicking (pun intended) in the UK. If you cant see that, then a trip to the opticians might be in order.
The older examples I gave were, as I said but you have ignored, to show that this isn’t a new problem.
You seem to be focused on colour. Most of those assaulted at the London demonstrations, Orgreave, CND rallies were white.
It is incredibly rare for the police in the UK to be even accused of causing the death of a member of the public. It is even rarer for the police to be found legally guilty - the Jean Charles de Menezes case was one of those very rare examples. You yourself have been unable to produce a more recent case than that, which is no less than 14 years old and had nothing to do with race.
Sure, UK police can cause injury, There will be bad UK police officers who actually want to cause injury. So brutality by the UK police does happen. But UK police brutality is not an issue.
who are you to make such ridiculous comparisons, the people of Hong Kong are fighting for their freedom and have my full support, in the US these rioters choice to take this action and are just using the actions of one police officer as an excuses
Guantanamo is used to house enemy combatants ( Terrorist) and has never totaled more than 800, while the Chinnese imprison 1.5 million Uyghurs that have harmed no one
In the US the press can tell all the lies and false news they want and the President can call them out but has no power to stop them, In China, this same news media would be joining the Uyghurs
Again I really do not understand your defense of China
If you live in a red state it is not so bad, it is the blue states that are going to hell, If it were possible to put all the Blue states together you would have North Korea, while the red state would be South Korea
Maybe comparing North Korea to the blues states is not fair to North Korea, Somalia might be a better fit
Why? Because its never happened to you or anyone you know? 1 incident is 1 too many
Why do you keep coming back to race? What has someones race, colour, or religion (one example I gave was a Muslim) got to do with it? I hadn’t considered you a racist before, but I suppose it fits in with some of the far-right rhetoric being spouted on this thread.
And before you say it, no I’m not far-left or even near-left much though some on here would like to think was the case.
