I understand what you’re saying, @tommor.
In fact, we appreciate this deeper layer in the discussion. We only ask that all the participants try to keep their responses calm and civil, so as not to trivialize the topic into mere name-callings and taunts. Rest assured that we’ll only be deleting posts that are completely off-topic and do not add any value to the discussion.
We hope you understand.
The problem we have with this thread, and a few others, is that one of our members is fine with posting his own opinions but whenever someone posts something with an opposing view he insults, belittles, and baits them until they simply give up the discussion. Then, perhaps weeks later when he is bored because no one is posting on his threads, he quotes them in a post, knowing that they will be notified of this and hopefully take the bait.
This topic was automatically opened after 46 hours.
There is a sense of deja vu and perhaps that feeling is what has changed my own perspective.
Back in the day it was not co2 but rather the Ozone layer. How come that problem has declined? - effort by governments who took the word of the scientists has helped.
As in all human endeavour there are extremists, and extremists have their own extreme and often ego-driven agenda.
Is the BOE governor one such person? - I doubt it, he has done a good job in a difficult environment, I was one of those who proudly announced back after the Brexit vote that Eur/Gbp would soon be at parity - but for Mark Carney I have been proved wrong.
Is there an argument that there is Brexit vs Global Warming?
No - it’s the versus part that causes the problem, both these things will happen in the future, both can be at the extreme - it’s we who will choose.
A thought written some thousands of years ago:
When I see the heavens, the work of your hands, the moon and the stars… what is man… yet you gave him power over the works of your hand…
(today’s reading from Ps8 at mass)
Thanks for your input @peterma - You raise a number of good issues - which impinge on the subject of the thread, which was intended to be wide and to investigate at some depth as correctly noted by @Penelopip.
If you don’t mind as time is not really at a premium, I’ll address them piecemeal rather than in a lengthy tome.
Firstly i note your reference to Mark Carney, who has been in the forefront of the scaremongers preaching against “Brexit” and especially against a WTO Brexit. It is perhaps notable that “they” have been unable to find a replacement for him as Governor of BoE and I have posted elsewhere that the suspicion is that none of the prospective candidates for the position are willing to risk contaminating their integritity by continuance of his stance on “project Fear”. In fact his predessessor Mervyn King said as recently as this March
Aye, I have some knowledge of ‘project fear’ - we keep being reminded of that fear thing over here in NI.
There is a guy here, little like M Carney in that he is not a politician and def not an extremist - in fact if I were trying to scare him I’d be a little afraid:
Hey @peterma - a while back I used to be over to Belfast and other places in NI for business. I always got great service and a lovely welcome wherever we went. Then two guys told me I looked quite a lot like Alex Maskey. I didn’t know who the heck they meant, I thought its was just my charm and easy manner. But turns out they were right. True story. Good times.
He he, Tom, I chose the best pic i could find:
Yeah, that’s me. Couldn’t you put a pic of Alex up?
Wasn’t that "ChloroFlouroCarbons " which reacted chemically with the “ozone” and that reaction could readily be demonstated in a laboratory - I was repairing Fridges at the time (amongst other things ) and we were prevented from using the normal “Refill gas” R12 because of the effect on the Ozone layer (1990s if I remember right ?). Similarly they were used in Propellants for cans of aerosols. Technology simply found alternatives and the holes in the Ozone layer repaired themselves - insulating us from the UV Rays. All good. [And note the “Ozone layer” was exactly that - an insulating “Layer” whereas CO2 is spread about in the atmosphere.
The difference being - That was Real science - Cause effect, reproduceable experiments and nobody trying to hide behind “peer reviewed papers”. Simple Science explained as all “science” HAS to be - You can check the science of Einstein, Newton, Curie, Pasteur Gallileo, Hawkin, You can check Chaos theory, Darwin, Mendel. (None of which is “consensus science”)
Yet you cannot check “CO2= Global warming Hypothesis” - It exists in the same world as “the Gender Pay Gap” - Multiple “Peer reviews” by other hard line Feminists and has been shown to be fallacious every time anyone examines it with an open mind. Yet even tonight on Radio 4 “they” were spouting it again as though it was true and looking for ways to “cure” this non-existant fallacy. By simple repetition of this postmodernist “Narrative” “they” just indoctrinate people that it is somehow “true”. And people who expect Radio 4 et al to report “Facts” - just accept it. - As indeed they should, if their assumptions of “accurate reporting” were justified.
That then is the same thing that the “Climate Scientists” are doing. Then the “Catastrophists” latch on to what NASA confidently proclaim was 0.8 degrees of “warming” (How incredibly Stable is that ? ) from 1880 to 2020 and declare in Al Gore fashion that extinction is upon us !
Why ? - well for the scientists and Catastrophist “hangers on”, it IS an existential matter - admit the truth and we no longer need the scientists ! - ergo the mortgage can’t be paid and the kids go hungry !
Oh hey, if I ever get back over to Ballymena we’ll go out and eat and I guarantee extra helpings of champ, won’t even have to ask. I used to think its was local hospitality but then given my face and all, maybe it was just in case…
This thread was started when the Catastrophists disrupted London in the run up to the MEP elections - it wondered whether there was any connection between the anticipated disastrousEU Election results for the Establishment Parties and Global Warming by way of using the demonstrations to divert media attention away from the MEP elections and thus “Bury bad news” ?
Naturally no direct link can at this stage be made without potential consequences in Libel. That may change as time goes on - but interestingly our “bill” for Brexit is a little over £39 Billion.
Theresa May has now committed us to pay for a complete “Carbon Neutral” Country by 2050. ie 30 years. Hammond says this is likely to cost us neary 100 times as much at £3 thousand Billion ! (and we all know how understated "Government estimates turn out to be !) - One may speculate that is quite a high price to pay for a little “distraction” !
So by 2050
That’s only 30 years - I shan’t be here but our gradchildren will absolutely hate us for condemning them back effectively to the stone age - for no good reason whatever ! Just because their grand parents had not got the common sense to question this propaganda !
[Oh did I mention she is going to set up a “panel” of children to overview the progress, make suggestions and tell them where they need to hurry it up ! ]
Aha - the champ - used to get it with a raw egg mixed in - made the champ yellow but it was lovely - then it became a big no no when along came salmonella.
Know the way Homer drools when thinking of chaaaamp 
Aye I read and then re-read the 2050 statement - seems a strange thing, first thought was why then, why not say 2040 or 2060 - maybe it’s a bit of PR methinks.
Ireland published their plan today - it has a bit more methodical approach e.g. a push on electric cars, more charging points, single use plastic ban (they have long since switched to paper bags)
There is a whole list of programs all with the aim of zero carbon by 2050 (there’s that date again) - more cycles lanes, more park/ride, ability to sell back to the nat grid, 400k heat pumps for business and homes…
All doable stuff and sensible - no mention of following Norway and having zero rate vat on electric cars but maybe in the future.
On the Brexit front the conclusion locally is that BoJo will make PM and we will be out with no deal on Oct 31 - seems even the Germans have come round to Macron’s thinking.
What will happen then to trade nobody knows - last letter I received from HMRC was to do nothing until I hear from them so I guess they don’t even know.
the ones i put in bold, actually are “consensus sciences”
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tomatoes are beeing produced mainly in green houses.
there you go, green house effect proven. youre welcome. science in real world you can actually observe.
now to make it complicated,
venus is the planet farther away from sun than earth.
venuses atmosphere is 95% carbon dioxide = average temperature on venus +640 celsius
earth atmosphere is 1% carbon dioxide = average temperature (even thou much closer to the sun than venus) 14.6 celsius
need more logic?
mars is much closer to the sun than is earth… mars carbon dioxide = 0%
mars average temperature = (minus) -125 celsius
green house effect working on a planetary scale? = proven
need more proofs?
I used to love champ with a glass of buttermilk, mmmm
I think the 2050 thing comes out of the “Paris party” doesn’t it ? - Close enough to seem reasonable - far enough away for them all to be retired or dead when they “fail”. - but the May woman is the only one so far to be dumb enough to bind it into law ! (Admittedly it has teh 5 year “escape clause” - but that is dependent on agreement that “the science has changed” by those with a vested interest (ie no “Escape” at all !) - but £39 bliiion spread over a number of years to “get out of EU” versus Hamonds “fag packet estimate” of £3 TRILLION over 30 years (say £120 Billion per year - for 30 years ? )
Nothing wrong with that ! - Essential in fact from an environmaental perspective - but does absolutely nothing wrt “global warming” - do you remember when they brought plastic bags in ? To stop deforestation ? 
Ok we’re hearing over here that “cycle lanes” are a safety issue
Selling back to the national grid - implies solar panels - We had that over here a decade or more ago and my Sister in Law jumped on that bandwagon - When the sun is shining the Electric goes back to the grid - when nobody is using much. The amount she gets in subsidised Refunds pretty much nullifies her bill and has long since covered the £10,000 she paid to have it instaled. However as I implied - the “electric” she sends back is a very low demand tim and is simply wasted - whilst the poorer customers have their charges increased to cover the losses by the Electric suppliers!
“Park and ride” ? has it’s place perhaps - as a decongestant but how cost effective it is - is open for discussion.
400K heat pumps ? ok well as a student taking the “Environment and Services” part of the course - heat pumps were what I decided to put into my “Ideal home build” - However there are Heat pumps and “heat pumps” ! There are a couple of issues here.
For the uninitiated, they are basically Fridges (Air conditioners) running backwards.
What heat source are you using ?
So it is inevitable that Electric costs will skyrocket - rendering them even more disadvantageous.
Undoubtedly - although I would say “Virtue signalling” 
The trouble for Politicians is that the Catatrophists have hyped the slight possibility that Co2 raises temperatures into a full fledged FORECAST of Catastrophy. There is no real evidence to suggest any such likelihood - yet there is an impression created to lead teh Politicians to believe that to even investigate these claims properly would be Political Suicide.
Sometimes small numbers of hugely vocal Zealots create an impression of far more support than is actually true - As can be readily seen in the success of the BREXIT Party and the real people’s frustation at remaining ignored and unheard !
But a really low estimate of £3,000 BILLION ? when our GDP is only £2800 Billion ? For no real improvement in our lives and probably devastated economy "Virtue signalling All those uneccessary deaths and misery caused by this fantasy ? - For NOTHING ?
Jeez -
[Edit - sorry for teh typos - usually I go back and correct - just can’t be bothered this time - lol]
Perhaps the most ambitious part of the Irish plan is to have zero sales of fossil fueled cars by 2030.
The Society of the Irish Motor Industry haven’t rubbished the plan - they point out that Ireland switched from largely petrol to diesel in 2008 and with the right infrastructure and taxation incentives it can be done - we’ll wait and see.
There is an interesting thought doing the rounds on Brexit - it seems the original agreement (back in Dec 2017) is still available - that is the one where NI remains within EU and UK but UK is out - no border issues good for NI trade etc.
Now if BoJo were to say … hmm… I’ll guarantee UK out by Oct 31 and no backstop applicable to UK - then DUP will have to throw a hissie and either trigger a vote of confidence or put up with it.
Imagine the former - then BoJo can say to the country - ‘here it is, I haven’t called this GE, do you want to back me or not?’
Interesting thought.