The problem is GOD yes or no?

The Lobby
186

Hey Dennis, I choose possibility 4… Evolution… We evolved over billions of years, and we have multiple fossil records that go some way to confirm this scientific theory.

Genesis 1:14-19

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the sky to separate day from night. These lights will be used for signs, seasons, days and years…

15 They will be in the sky to give light to the earth.” And it happened…

16 So God made the two large lights. He made the brighter light to rule the day. He made the smaller light to rule the night. He also made the stars…

17 God put all these in the sky to shine on the earth…

18 They are to rule over the day and over the night. He put them there to separate the light from the darkness. God saw that all these things were good…

19 Evening passed, and morning came. This was the fourth day…

Lets take a good look at this creational Biblical scripture…

These lights will be used for signs, seasons, days and years… The Ancient Egyptians, Mayans and many other cultures of the day… Were already using the Sun and the Seasons as a way of keeping time… For Religious and Agricultural purposes…

God made two great lights… Even the lay Palestinian living in the land of Canaan in ancient times was fully aware of the Sun and the Moon… the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night…

He made the stars also… The revolution of the Earth around the Sun (A conspiracy at this time) would give the appearance that the stars were constantly moving…

There is nothing in these Genesis phrases the average Hebrew farmer that cast an eye skyward at Dusk and at the Dawn wasn’t trying to make sense out of what he was seeing…

The physical world had to be explained, and at the time an all powerful God was a way to make sense of everything…

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There’s noting supernatural about the world we live in, just peoples Imagination running wild.

If there’s a “supernatural Deity” He / she / They, are extremely sadistic creatures.

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Irrespective of if you believe that God created the world or if you believe in evolution, we are all blessed to be here.

Evolution does not make claims about God’s existence or non-existence

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Evolution vs Creation.

Some years back there was a traditional vs argument - one or the other.

The argument always struck me as strange - Darwin theorised that evolution causes species to change with time but share a common ancestor.

At the dawn of creation - at the universe’s creation from void there was no matter thus no life, only after matter formed then the possibility of life existed.

At some point post big bang life was created from matter that had been created from the void - likewise the notion of time began with the creation of matter.

Note that I use the word ‘creation’ in a non-religious sense - when matter exists from nothing then it is said to be created.

Thus life and time having been formed - the process of evolution could begin.

It took a length of time and the right conditions of water, sunlight and seasons.

But then again with the Creator a thousand years is but a day.

I’ve encountered the theory that all these events happened by coincidence - a theory that I understand, but still no explanation of existence of space itself - an existence that ensures the viability of the entire universe.

Without that space our galaxy couldn’t travel at 1.3 million mph - in which case we’d all fall off :slight_smile:

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As I stated in a previous post… “The more we learn the less we know…”

@peterma See, here’s the thing… Mankind doesn’t know everything… And mankind will probably never know everything… We don’t know what happens to us when we die… We don’t know what state matter was in prior to the Big Bang… We don’t really know if there was a Big Bang…

These are still theories which far wiser men than you and I have applied mathematics and science to formulate… Not ancient texts and legend’s.

The ancient civilizations didn’t have the science and technology of today… The world at large didn’t have it 200 years ago… So without the science, technology and historical data… These primitive civilisations assigned Gods to make sense of the world they lived in…

The Pagans, The Vikings, The Mayans, The Aztecs, The Greeks, The Egyptians, The Buddhist’s all have their own interpretation of Gods to make sense out of the chaos of the physical world around them…

Most of these Religion’s Deities were assigned to legend and folklore once these culture’s were dragged kicking and screaming into the New World…

We are going around in circles now… As I posted in response to @SmallPaul…

It’s really, really simple… We have physical proof of Evolution… When you can provide physical proof of a God… Any God for that matter…

This debate will no longer exist…

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Enjoy life as you see it, you only have one

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192

The mother passed thankfully peacefully.

The son enjoyed many conversations with his mum re God, she had been a nurse in North England immediate post ww2 - saw much suffering and deprivation - her young faith was tested to the extreme - a spiritual experience that she encountered renewed that.

About a year after her passing the son had one of those vivid dreams - in the company of his sister he could see his mum. There was a debate between the siblings - that’s a ghost asserted the sister, mum is dead.

The son being the type of person to grab hold of the bull said ‘I’m going over to check’ - instantly he was there.

“Mum are you dead?” - his mum laughed and at the same instance changed appearance from a +80yr old to a 30yr old.

“No I’m not dead”, she answered still smiling.

“But you look so different” the son stammered (kinda silly response I suppose)

“That’s because I live differently” she answered still smiling.

The son wakened at once, he gave thanks to God for two things - first allowing his mum the interaction and secondly adhering to the Spiritual Law of acceptance or rejection by using the medium of dream.

God used the same media when interacting with St Joseph - like the son in the above story he too was older, likely a pragmatist who would grab the bull.

When our body dies life is changed - not ended.

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Yes, indeed we know little - we look and wonder - how did space begin - likely no beginning - how will it end - likely no end - how did the force of gravity form - likely was always there - and so on.

The science of coincidence falls within wonder - without space or gravity - no universe.

Coincidence or Intelligence - if the first then it needs a starting point just like evolution - if the latter then it needs a mind.

The universe is evolution just as Darwin theorized - the difficulty is the starting point.

If it is the case that space has no beginning and no end - then it is eternal.

If space has no physical boundary then it is infinite.

Not easy conceptions for the human mind - maybe because we don’t (yet) know everything?

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In terms of my beliefs on this matter, I believe as science discovers new so-called evidence, their views will change.

Since discovery is an ongoing and never-ending process, each new discovery brings new beliefs

The problem is, when we are all dead and gone, and major breakthrough discoveries happen, how will we know when we are all dead and gone?

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I’d say that each new discovery brings new understanding rather than belief.

What we as humans believe in or have faith in is what we experience, generally it takes a new experience for us to change our belief.

Science is knowledge and knowledge can be a vehicle for wisdom - as TWB said up above we don’t know everything - imagine if you were to meet a person who when encountering you are instinctively aware they know everything that there is to know.

Imagine then you must change a lifetime habit - habits like beliefs are not an easy thing to change.

Freedom to accept or reject - a Spiritual Law.

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It is the freedom to accept or reject that makes life so great.

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That freedom is not withdrawn upon the death of the body - rather it is enhanced - then it is possible to choose with complete knowledge of our choices, both good and bad, during our life time.

Longer story for another time :slight_smile:

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First of all, I do believe in a creator. Someone or something who has created us, but I do not believe in the god that the religion is portraying to us. this god is just another human (a super man) not a god.

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That’s a new one, made me laugh, but i respect your opinion :+1:

200

Maybe in the science community.

Some People who post here are relying on science for their beliefs just as some rely on religion or faith for their beliefs.

Evolution does not make claims about God’s existence or non-existence

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The Scientists Beginning To Doubt The Theory Of Evolution

The modern debate surrounding the origin of life on Earth has. always been divisive. Historically, scientists have sided with the theory of evolution, whilst followers of the world’s religions side with the theory of creationism. This documentary follows a meeting of some of the worlds top scientists and scholars who harbour doubts that evolution holds all of the answers.

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That’s technically true. Though in fact a perfect immortal being which simply IS and which has had no biological development and never will have, is contrary to anything in evolution.

The theory of evolution obviously makes what the bible has to say on creation misleading.

But its always possible a god created evolution too, perhaps as a test of faith? I’m not serious about this theory.

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Theories can be right or can be wrong, who knows,

I prefer to go with my faith in God, whether I’m right or wrong, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages

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Looking back and considering this post, I feel more inclined to believe in creation instead of evolution

Even if it’s not a god, my faith has brought a good human into the world, I can die in peace knowing I did not bring evil into this world.

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I guess we are going to be at opposite ends of this debate, but that is fine, your Evolution requires a lot of faith as well.

Where do you come up with

Paleontologists have only been able to date the first multi-cell organisms back to about 600 million years ago.

If you were to place life on earth on a scale of one year, Humans only appeared at 11 pm on Dec. 31st

This is where I have my issues with evolution, It works well and explains all life on Earth except for humans. Why are we so different than every other lifeform, and seem to have been here way too short a time for evolution to take place.

I will stick to my three possibilities, with evolution a very distant 4th

As for the Bible, it says what it says, and Genesis is spot on, There was a beginning and there will be an end