The problem is GOD yes or no?

That would be a great topic, what people call miracle is just a chain of cause and effects in my opinion. Truly can’t accept any of these.

If a god exists or not, I personally don’t believe that something was just laying or floating around and created everything.

Furthermore, the thing that supposedly created all of this knew we needed a nose, eyes, ears, blood, heart, liver, kidneys, lungs, skin and a brain, as well as made the perfect earth for itself to survive on. in other words this thing had a brain

So that’s the beginning now we need to look at earth and fish

Likewise, I fell victim to misperceptions.

Berkeley University of California cleared up my misperceptions.

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I’m a business person - started from scratch over 40 yrs ago - during a recession that nobody told me about - pragmatic is my middle name.

The cancer thing is in the past - I asked for a sign that He wld be with me - I was in a church when I asked, it had high small windows - the instant that I asked a beam of sunlight dazzled me, I was surprised at the timing and the fact that my wife right next to me didn’t see it - coincidence - or a sign - my choice, I took it as a sign.

Turned out I got one of the best surgeons that the NHS had and he was only available because a court case in which he was to be a witness was settled and by chance his diary was cleared.

Coincidence - my choice - I thanked God for His coincidences.

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Here is another little thought - the God of coincidences.

Today my wife and I undertook a long journey to one of the most beautiful parts of Ireland - the Dingle Peninsula - it was a business trip.

Before such a long trip we have a habit of bowing our heads and asking protection from God.

On the way back, I was driving, it was a narrow road with high hedges and many bends - suddenly as i approached one of these bends I slowed to an almost stop - the thought came into my head what if I were to meet a little boy racer.

That is exactly what happened, round the corner he came at high speed - had I not almost stopped there wld have been a nasty head-on.

I blurted out “thank You Lord” - my wife just shouted “wow”.

As I travelled home I wondered about what had happened - was it my experience of so many years of driving that caused the thought or did He just help out because He was asked.

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I think miracles are considered miracles mainly because they cannot be explained via cause and effects, i.e. in accordance with current scientific knowledge. Here is one (of many) definitions of a miracle:

" A miracle is an event that is inexplicable by natural or scientific laws and accordingly gets attributed to some supernatural or praternatural cause" .

Naturally, that does not mean they will not be explainable at some later date as science evolves. :slight_smile: Afterall, in days of old thunder and lightening were attributed to gods…

Two nice stories, @peterma, thank you for posting them! :slight_smile:

And there it is: coincidence or divine intervention. We will never really know until the time comes!

“For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” 1Cor 13:12

That is surely the core essence of what constitutes faith! We are faced with the choice. Where does one hang one’s hat! I guess this is what the bible calls knocking on the door.

I have talked with people who have said that, upon reflection, they have had such callings on numerous occasions but have always either not noticed or ignored it, sometimes even plain denied it. But in their eyes, god never gave in and eventually the penny dropped - and only then did they see they whole picture.

I have also often talked with missionaries working in the Far- and Middle East as well as African states, and asked them how do they know that they should be doing this work? And without exception that have replied that the call is so strong there is no room for the slightest doubt. But, as with Paul in Damascus, they understood that it was not going to be easy…

It truly is a fascinating topic.

It is kind of ironic to think that a believer will never know it if they are wrong - but an atheist will never know it if they are right! Unless, of course, there is yet another alternative! :laughing:

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That is it is - Paul stood holding the clothing of the stone throwers who killed Stephen - yet God didn’t intervene.

Paul was beheaded because he was a Roman citizen, Peter not so, neither Jesus.

The one thing that bugs me most - how we deal with those we perceive as outside our clique.

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Yes, Paul was born into a Jewish family in Tarsus and was also born with Roman citizenship which had been granted earlier to his father.

Paul used his Roman citizenship in several situations during his missionary years. The most important of which was his demand for trial in Rome and thereby the gospel was finally taken to the centre of the world at that time, Rome itself.

I am not sure I understand what you mean here. What in particular?

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I read different books on it and also all the opinions here. What a comprehensive issue!

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In Jesus’s time women, Samaritans, tax collectors and those perceived to be sinners i.e. those with sickness, especially leprosy - these were outside the clique.

Jesus broke those barriers - the story of the woman caught in adultery - that is told in John’s gospel, the last gospel - but was supposed to be in the synoptics but considered too radical - yet the story wouldn’t go away thus inserted into John’s at the last minute so to speak…

We as professed Christians do the same thing, me included - here in NI it’s referred to as us and them’uns - the them’uns maybe not tax collectors (although sometimes not so sure :slight_smile:

Nowadays it’s left vs right, conservative vs woke (a new one), protestant vs catholic etc etc.

Anyways will it will always be like that - us and them’uns - I will end with a positive note - not if Jesus has anything to do with it.

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But is it not necessary and practical in life to make decisions concerning how different groups and types are treated? For example, governments in applying tax policies, and health and social services?

Surely, it is not just the differentiation and segregation that is the problem, rather, isn’t it the attitude that goes with it that we need to watch? Afterall, even Jesus was selective in his reply to the Canaanite woman who pleaded with him (Matt15:21-28):

“Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”

Jesus at first refused to reply at all, but then said:

" I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

And when the woman persisted in her humble request, Jesus was even more explicit, saying:

“It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”

I could imagine that kind of retort in today’s world might generate some strong responses on social media! :smiley:

Aye, not unlike the guy in the night seeking help and the householder for the sake of peace (and some sleep) relenting.

Not only a female but also a Gentile - Matthew said the disciples urged Him to get rid of her (she’s one of them’uns) - yet she ignored them - her focus was her trust - instinctively she persisted.

Instinct is fascinating - bit like coincidences - is it from Spirit or merely nature and chance.

Second time round on the cancer story in my life instinct helped me - or was it Spirit - I suspect the latter - although I had a difficult time explaining to the med pros why I was seeking help.

Exactly… Nothing but fables, fallacies and fairy tales have taken over this thread…

Now back to the reality of just how destructive fixated religions and their fixated ideologies are in the modern world…

Not much coverage from the mainstream media in the western world…

There is a reason that borders have existed for hundreds if not thousands of years… Because we are not all the same… Society’s are different, Cultures are different, Religions are different… Borders are about protecting people…

Seems it only takes ~20yrs and a concerted effort to overthrow an ignorant, forgetful and gullible society…

France is f**ked… And it won’t be long before the UK follows suit…

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There is no doubt that this is true, but countries do have legal immigration from various countries with different cultures, societies, and religious backgrounds

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I agree with what you are saying. sometimes these so-called cause and effects are too complicated that we don’t understand them, later and once we do, they are no longer miracles.

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This is what the western woke fail to comprehend… Many of these refugee’s coming from third world nations aren’t interested in assimilation… Adapting their cultures or religions to the countries they immigrate too…

As displayed in this thread… Religion, Culture is deeply entrenched

They are not going to relinquish either of these just because they immigrate to a Western Nation…

North Africa, the Middle East, South America… Social services barely exist in these nations, poverty is extreme… It’s about social services… Money, Housing, Food and Clothing…

Retaining respective cultures with Western World entitlements… A new Promised Land…

This has caused cultural and religious ghetto’s in many modern cities… Effectively no go zones for the native inhabitants of many western urban center’s…

And not just France…This is happening in Germany, Sweden, Belgium, UK and the US as well… Just most here don’t have the courage to post on a forum about this reality…

Mannheim, Malmo, Brussels, Birmingham, London… While millions of Hispanics flood in unchecked across the porous United States southern border…

While It’s not comfortable reading, all of the above is true…

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Immigrants are not going to change their religion just because they move to a new country, though maybe, and this is a big maybe, their religion might change in future generations

It is very rare for a Christian from a western country to move to a Muslim country and cover to a Muslim.

and for immigration, Since the beginning of time, people have migrated from one country to another, either forcedly or willingly

I don’t expect them too… But is shows that Islam is not compatible in a predominantly Christian country… Just as Judaism is a bit of an issue across the Middle East…

Which has been my point all along… Religion’s aren’t compatible… Hence the Rioting, burning and destruction currently engulfing France and parts of Belgium…

These events give those of fixated extreme ideologies silly ideas… Hence next time a member of a certain belief is shot or killed in any other European nation… You can pretty much guarantee more of the same…

It’s already been happening across Europe for quite a few years now

Just not reported by Yahoo News…