What about the Unity?

Democracy is what divides us from tyranny - the rule of law and fair play must surely emanate from the very seat of democracy - No.10.

Or does it really matter, it’s just an employee of no.10 who can resort to the law.

If a Government minister were to say '“well I’ll only abide by the law when I see it’s content” then I wonder would such a statement have the feel of democracy, the rule of law.

To utter such on Sep 1st 2019 makes me wonder.

BBC this morning:
Gove won’t commit to abide by law to block no deal.

On the thought of domination of one country by another, it’s interesting how history revolves.

In Jan 1963 De Gaulle issued his first “Non” to British membership of the EEC.

This was a shock to most of Europe and to GB, I still remember the NON as the headline in the papers.

The shock aspect was so soon after ww2, where was the gratitude, the second was his reasoning.

He was concerned that a free trade area would be created, and above all, he regarded the United Kingdom as a Trojan horse concealing US interests: he believed that British accession would lead to the Americanisation of Europe (cvce.eu)

The next NON was in '67, various economic reasons offered, the UK decided to wait until the Frenchman left the stage.

It happened that the Americanisation of Europe happened in any event, some years ago we were shopping in a supermarche in southern France - at midday the lights went out and an announcement for all customers to leave immediately - it was siesta time.

Re-visited the same marche 5 years later - the parent company is now American - no lights out at midday :slight_smile:

Edit: for anyone interested or disinterested, here is a little history in context:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/november/27/newsid_4187000/4187714.stm

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By “undemocratic” I was referring to MrDE’s reference to the dismissal of a government advisor. My post was clearly marked as a reply to his post. That particular employment issue is nothing to do with democracy.

You must be missunderstanding something. I never said firing a government advisor is undemocratic. Firing an gov adv is every day business.

You actually said this -
“Sonia Khan, a Treasury adviser to Saj was escorted out of No.10 by armed police after enforcer (unelected) Dominic Cummings subjected her to a grilling.”

As we all know, only MP’s are elected so its irrelevant in fact that Dominic Cummings is unelected. But by linking his actions with the fact that he is unelected, you appear to be linking his action on this issue with the wider accusation that the government is acting undemocratically over the proroguing of Parliament etc. You may not have intended such a negative implication that but that is the effect.

No, that was a post by peterma.

My post after his was a comparison of perception of democracy. While the UK thinks having advisers and uneleced MPs/PMs in charge is democracy, the UK think its not democracy if you have advisers and elected commissioners in brussels. Which is exactly same principal on which downing 10 operates.

Thou i dont think that it was necesarry to escort anyone out with police. A simple quiet leaving would have been sufficient. Imo the police escort was nothing but attention seeking from medias to cover a story in which someone was supposed to put in a light as “the strong men did something, look how strong he is, he uses police to enforce the right of tge government”. A prepared stage for cummings to promote himself.

Oh yes you’re right. My apologies. I was indeed replying to peterma.

That’s what happens when I drink red wine and have two arguments running at the same time… Not recommended…

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@tommor

He’s quite right here @tommor, you and I and those of our generation sincerely believe in “MODERNIST RULES”

We have been brought up to believe that knowledge is built slowly, generation after generation and the phrase coined (but not originated by) - Isaac Newton ;

"I can see a little further by standing on the shoulders of Giants"

Indeed forms a deeply understood part of our cherished education experience.

To these Postmodernists; Logic. objective truth, scientifiic method and critical thinking mean nothing of value.

Their philosophy centres on the “FACT” that “Truth” is simply “Their narrative” and what we “believe” to be objective truth and / or fact is simply “our narrative” and therefore of no greater merit than theirs !

We believe that truth can be reached by debate, discussion and rational thought. They do not ! To them anyone with a different “Narrative”, “story” or who “paints a different picture” are simpl WRONG ! In fact, not only “wrong” but Evil and therefore needs to be shut up, de-platformed, ridiculed, silenced. due to their “WRONGTHINK” which is Dangerous - because it may contaminate other people’s thoughts and

I know this sounds wierd - and where the hell it will drive the world - who knows ? - BUT it will NOT be to a good place !

You and I probably heard the sentence ; "Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do ! "

However that is overly generous in this case. We can see well enough that many of them (Including this one) DO know exactly “what they do” - and they think (if that word is applicable ) - “It is good”

However my point to you is that it is impossible to communicate with them. Since their Religious belief that “truth” is simply “Their narrative” gives them carte blanche to simply write down any old rubbish that comes into their head and "it is true" by their own definition !

It is neccessary for " those of us who are no longer young enough to know everything" to understand the "nature of the Beast"

He is not the only one on Babypips, but is the most insistent of them.

So I suggest as an introduction, you study this simplified introduction to the problem we face.

Its no big deal :slightly_smiling_face:

Mistakes in reading happen to anyone. Latest to me too a few weeks ago if you remember.

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I am handicapped in Brexit debating because I don’t have a Remain or Leave position. Whichever results in greater and longest-lasting economic prosperity for England is good by me.

Thats not a handicap its a plus. Beeing neutral makes you able to see things from a emotionless perspective. More clear.

That’s very complimentary thank you. Damn facts ‘n’ stuff keep getting in the way.

The only facts I never listen to are those from economists. Those poor guys are not smart enough to know the future but too dumb to know they are not smart enough to know the future.

I understand why you say that but i must disagree.

One of the main reasons why germany managed to come out after the devestations of WW2 and the reuinification with east germany (which was a very very poor and weak region of 20million people with almost no jobs at all after communism broke down) this sucessfully is this:

Economy is a abstract construct of management of a country. If its done well, everybody bebefits from it in the long run.

if you recieve 1 like for this post then ill answer it. Untill then i let you enjoy your false knowledge and utterly wrong conclusions you derrived from it. The reason nobody likes it or answers on it is the fact that you got every single fact wrong in it.

Lol, there’s me thinking that red wine is good for the health - I’m sticking with Italian white (while I can still get it)

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You do realise that the post referred to - was written at 7:40am on a Monday morning ? :rofl:

Ol’ Falstaff was a bit of a boozer - but wehey - peed up at that time is a bit impressive ! :wink:

The article is good. But i must disagree on one point: it says both sides are unserious in talks, truth is EU is serious,its the UK thats not serious by trying to exploit talks as a mean of getting voters on one parties side.

I also must point out something which probably 99% of brits already forgot: the “backstop” was a proposal of the UK and it was the UK that wanted it, while the EU was against it. Now the UK calls it undemocratic and BoJo acts like its the EU forcing a backstop on the UK.

Taking this behaviour into account (and others not mentioned by me here), how can the EU take london politics serious in any way?

The truth is there are 2 sides. The author said “it takes 2 sides for a deal to fail”. <- that is not true. The truth is it takes 2 sides to make/create a deal, but it takes only 1 side to ruine a deal. Whoever made deals in his life knows this simple truth. One side saying no and beeing unserious is suficient to ruine a deal. And right now it is one side which changes its direction like a flag in the wind. The same side is beeing unserious by saying what it doesnt want (after it asked for exactly that thing it now doesnt want) but not giving any logical or possible or existing solution. (95% of bfitish population doesnt even understand what the backstop is and what its purpose is- and its the UK politics to blame for the little knowledge the people have in this and the entire brexit process)

It is an impas. Yes. But if we play the blame game, then please understand these points:

EU didnt kick UK out, UK wanted out- EU not to blame

UK asked for the backstop in order to be able to benefit from the custorms union (EU said: in order to help YOU in having a good start in your new future we agree and grant you this), now UK doesnt want the backstop without which it can not participate in the customs union- EU not to blame

UK having heavy online and media campaigns against the EU and its institutions, creating a rift/break between the EU and the UK////while the EU has no online and media campaingst AT ALL against the UK and their (clown/circus) politics- EU not to blame

UK having politicians hoping/proclaiming/working on the breakup (destruction) of the EU//the EU has nobody hoping/proclaiming/working on the breakup/destruction of the UK- EU not to blame (thou i often wish brussels would be much harder on london than it is right now, just to give london a reality check)

I went thru Dublin Airport last Monday morning at 6.00am - guys were drinking pints as if it were 6.00pm - constitutions of steel :slight_smile:

Absolutely!
No prisoners!

Yeah - But …

They’re IRISH ! - Hardest Men on Earth !

Many years ago, in the days of the “Lump” - I was working on a Shopping Centre and there was a bit of a “Kerfuffle” - Ambulance came to collect one of the “Paddys” who happened to be in the way when someone dropped an ACROW Prop from 2 floors up ! - KNocked him completely “senseless” - Blood everywhere and off he went. At Lunchtime he’s back on the job complete with a huge blood soaked bandage around his head !

"Oi’m Not missing the WHOLE shift fer anybody ! " says he and gets straight back to work !

Edit - Acrow Prop !
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