Ict

akeakamai · February 16, 2013, 10:19am

Thanks for pointing this out. Could you please give us the [B]real[/B] explanation then?

PipJoker · February 16, 2013, 10:37am

Yes, i think he [I]might[/I] be trading very well in private. BUT for this argument i always put this - he has been trading 15yr+, he traded LARGE positions, a guy who went through fire and hell, would brake down due to some people saying bad words? Insulting? That what makes me wonder if he really has the mentality of a trader. Because after some time you grow iron skin. I think even you, AK, went through hard obsticles. And even you are still marching on And you’ve been trading what 3/5 yr at most?

JackMarkets · February 16, 2013, 10:39am

Hi, akeakamai, I would be happy to entertain you with an explanation - but would it be possible for you to ask your friends in your new thread to apologise for the criticism levelled at me for this post first:
http://forums.babypips.com/show-me-money-daytrading/43211-inner-circle-traders-millionaire-traders-guild-156.html#post400131

Which I think you all know now I was right (to be honest I am still annoyed that I was absolutely hammered by you guys for telling a simple truth and trying to help). Just a gesture since the last time I tried to ‘help’ I was caned by you guys. If you are in the chatroom then I will gladly explain it to you - it will take about 5 minutes or so to explain and I am sure you will have questions so a back and forth would be easier.

d-pip · February 16, 2013, 10:46am

PipJoker and other Systems Seekers,

Here’s a youtube link of an interesting interview with David Jenyns and Daryl Guppy.

Daryl Guppy Talks Trading Tools - p 1/7 - YouTube

In the first few minutes of the interview Daryl gives a pretty good explanation of the limitation of trading plans and trading systems. I think it explains why traders struggle to find “systems” that are consistently profitable.

Here are two quotes from the interview I think are worth highlighting.

[B][I]“The important point is not finding a system or designing a system, what is important is that you have to create an approach that’s appropriate for the current market conditions.”

“There’s always a challenge to adapt and adjust your trading style or approaches to suit the market conditions.”[/I][/B]

The first few minutes of the interview helped me understand why I would follow my “system” and have 2-3 very profitable weeks only to give it all back in a few days.

I hope this helps.

akeakamai · February 16, 2013, 10:48am

But it doesn’t give him a thick skin for being criticized (by more and more people the more he lost). I don’t do well when under the spotlight either… so I haven’t grown tougher… just smarter… by avoiding the spotlight entirely (with regards to my results). I posted that 8 week history of my trading, and I was comfortable doing that because it was just a segment of my results and “after-the-fact” but even that I would not do again. What I do have a thick skin for is taking real $ losses, but I admit that if people were watching and criticizing me for it… I wouldn’t be handling it all too well.

I think Michael’s biggest mistake was forgetting his own weaknesses. I will never forget mine now though! So all in all it was a great lesson, hahaha

akeakamai · February 16, 2013, 10:53am

I can’t make other people apologize, I’m not their parents, c’mon now…

Besides, ICT’s recent meltdown actually does in no way prove that statement to be falsified. Can’t prove it is real, can’t prove it is fake. Because nobody here has went to the computer in Michael’s house and seen what it says on his screen.

I’ll be in chat though…

Jaroon · February 16, 2013, 11:17am

Open your eyes AK and do yourself a favour, your tone is still one that defends Mickey.

We have evidence he can’t trade well but none that he can. We have a history of him lying and passing off others youtube material (gun collection for one) but no evidence of any truth about his claims of wealth and market history. We have evidence of his sock puppeting and melt down posts totally contrary to his god loving, Christian image he liked to portray.

You came back after a change of heart regarding Michey boy but you still think he’s a wealthy and succcessful trader,really?

Toekan is also stuck in a loop of illogic where we need to be grateful to any nutcase that spends his precious time (when he’s not drinking from the toilet bowl and howling at the moon) spewing drivel at noobs. No we don’t these attention seeking weirdos or failed traders looking to gain from their ineffectual but pretty market/trading narrative. Toekan told me in another post that these mentors owe us NOTHING. Well I think we owe each other honesty.

PipJoker · February 16, 2013, 11:23am

THIS. THIS!! I like. Thats all… Thats all i seek, for genuily good people trying honestly to help other people. Thats all…

green_as_grass · February 16, 2013, 11:43am

Dude! I was wondering who the “Photogate” instigator was, thinking “that guy should get a medal!” now this has all come about :57:
I hope you don’t mind, I have used that famous quote “Its Photoshopped!” recently, not to ridicule you, but just tongue in cheek humor. Apologies if it’s not appreciated & I will drop it from here

Hogarste · February 16, 2013, 11:43am

You’re really not being fair to Ake, to tie his coming back to the Forum after a quick time out and trying to have a more positive attitude, to him accepting things about ICT, that no one is totally sure of. Your point about what we can prove verses what we can’t is actually technically correct, as no one has seen ICT trade successfully with their own eyes. However, any debate regarding the methods he taught or kindness (yea, I’m sure the attention fed his ego, and being the leader of the pack with folks looking up to him had something to do with it) but the bottom line for probably hundreds of people, is that we wound up more knowledgeable as a result of his acts. Does that translate in to successful trading? Maybe not, it takes effort to learn and apply the methods, and I agree that trading does not and should not have a fast track.

Having some residual respect and appreciation for what someone learned from a teacher is a respectable thing. If you had the power to turn back time, so that there was no ICT on Babypips, maybe for some it would have been a less obnoxious place, and I feel for those folks and I genuinely like several of them. But if you could build that time machine, you’d have many people with much less knowledge regarding trading, which is contrary to the whole point of the forum.

Jaroon:

Open your eyes AK and do yourself a favour, your tone is still one that defends Mickey.

We have evidence he can’t trade well but none that he can. We have a history of him lying and passing off others youtube material (gun collection for one) but no evidence of any truth about his claims of wealth and market history. We have evidence of his sock puppeting and melt down posts totally contrary to his god loving, Christian image he liked to portray.

You came back after a change of heart regarding Michey boy but you still think he’s a wealthy and succcessful trader,really?

Toekan is also stuck in a loop of illogic where we need to be grateful to any nutcase that spends his precious time (when he’s not drinking from the toilet bowl and howling at the moon) spewing drivel at noobs. No we don’t these attention seeking weirdos or failed traders looking to gain from their ineffectual but pretty market/trading narrative. Toekan told me in another post that these mentors owe us NOTHING. Well I think we owe each other honesty.

jwlee7ucla · February 16, 2013, 11:57am

Toekan:

No, nobody is responsible for your trading results, EXCEPT YOU! YOU are responsible when you follow up advise, and YOU are responsible when that advise doesn’t work out.

Anyway, I think the suggestion in your post kills the purpose of BP, namely bringing traders and newbies together. As the newbies are becoming high maintenance, the fun to help newbies out will reduce significantly. But if that is what you are after, I hope the desired change will occur.

What about the time people spent on developing such a strategy? Don’t you understand that they give away free time to you by sharing it? This is the world upside down.

This site is about LEARNING to trade forex. Not about GIVING away free profitable systems that make you very rich. You should be able to make a trade system yourself. When you just wait for a system to come by, doesn’t make you a trader.

Yep, I am feeling that now. If this is the attitude towards people who want to try and help out, I am indeed very dissapointed in this site.

I’m going to address you toekan, because there are a few things you have mixed up here. The reason for people demanding evidence is not because it represents 10% a month for them, its because when you make claims about how good your trading is, at the very least to show its possible for them, SOMEONE ELSE(the creator) is actually generating a profit using that strategy. What good is a theoretical strategy that no1 is winning from?

Now your 2nd point- There is a difference between advice like “you shouldn’t overleveraging your account like that”, to “you must do this and this and this and view the markets like this to win”. One is general advice, one is very specific trading strategy (which comes with verifiable evidence as in you winning more or less often).

Now when talking with you in the chat, you give genera advice and “strategy”. You don’t solicit people to you, so you don’t count.

Now when we talk about people like MG99, he is JUST AS BAD as ict. Hes just not famous. He is equally egotistical, and he believes his way is the only way. Everything he says solicits and tries to convince people he is some awesome profitable trader, and when you say things like that, you need proof that what you are saying has some merit to it. Now, doesn’t that make him sound like eremarket? The only difference is that eremarkets does not act like a douche online to everyone except ICT back when they were butting heads.

I share “advice” all the time in the chat, but I always say things in the context that its unverifiable evidence, and its general advice (like yours). When you have people like MG99 who’s motto is, “sure you don’t have to listen to me, you’ll just be wrong”, everyone is expected to say “oh yeah, then show me the proof if you are so great”.

Make sense? He is acting more “calm” now because he is being smug that he ended up being in the right about ICT. For him, this whole image of him being Mr. awesome trader with no verifiable proof is all an ego thing. My advice? Ignore people like ict and mg99 and eremarkets n etc etc when it comes to soliciting profitable trading with no proof. There is nothing wrong with learning general advice.

So somehow magically people begin profiting only a few weeks after reading his thread? His material is so good that it changes a losing trader into a winning one IN ONLY A FEW WEEKS? What kind of snake oil is that? Sounds sketchy as heck to me, considering how much time real traders take to make some real consistent progress.

Jaroon · February 16, 2013, 12:02pm

Ok Hogarste you’re clearly a sensitive and perseptive guy and I’ll take your post on board. I’ve known the internet AK for a few years and like the guy so hope he sees my post as geniune not malicious but hey it’s the net so who knows?

Just to clarify the drivel of which I speak is not the tools wholesale, it’s the post market, post trade hindsight analysis and all the “Wow this stuff is easy huh guys” spiel.

qwer123 · February 16, 2013, 12:08pm

"jwlee7ucla":

I’m going to address you toekan, because there are a few things you have mixed up here. The reason for people demanding evidence is not because it represents 10% a month for them, its because when you make claims about how good your trading is, at the very least to show its possible for them, SOMEONE ELSE(the creator) is actually generating a profit using that strategy. What good is a theoretical strategy that no1 is winning from?

Now your 2nd point- There is a difference between advice like “you shouldn’t overleveraging your account like that”, to “you must do this and this and this and view the markets like this to win”. One is general advice, one is very specific trading strategy (which comes with verifiable evidence as in you winning more or less often).

Now when talking with you in the chat, you give genera advice and “strategy”. You don’t solicit people to you, so you don’t count.

Now when we talk about people like MG99, he is JUST AS BAD as ict. Hes just not famous. He is equally egotistical, and he believes his way is the only way. Everything he says solicits and tries to convince people he is some awesome profitable trader, and when you say things like that, you need proof that what you are saying has some merit to it. Now, doesn’t that make him sound like eremarket? The only difference is that eremarkets does not act like a douche online to everyone except ICT back when they were butting heads.

I share “advice” all the time in the chat, but I always say things in the context that its unverifiable evidence, and its general advice (like yours). When you have people like MG99 who’s motto is, “sure you don’t have to listen to me, you’ll just be wrong”, everyone is expected to say “oh yeah, then show me the proof if you are so great”.

Make sense? He is acting more “calm” now because he is being smug that he ended up being in the right about ICT. For him, this whole image of him being Mr. awesome trader with no verifiable proof is all an ego thing. My advice? Ignore people like ict and mg99 and eremarkets n etc etc when it comes to soliciting profitable trading with no proof. There is nothing wrong with learning general advice.

So somehow magically people begin profiting only a few weeks after reading his thread? His material is so good that it changes a losing trader into a winning one IN ONLY A FEW WEEKS? What kind of snake oil is that? Sounds sketchy as heck to me, considering how much time real traders take to make some real consistent progress.

I like this post

Goldboner500 · February 16, 2013, 12:16pm

Toekan:

Off topic again, but do it anyway.

The relation between these two opinions always bugged me, but I never dared to confront my wife with them:

Men have simple minds.

Men don’t understand women!

If we men have simple minds it should be obvious that we don’t understand women! Saying that others have a simple mind implies that they are more complex themselves. But I don’t understand why they than act surprised when we don’t understand them?

Also, my wife thinks I can read mind (at least she expects I can read hers). If that means that she can read mind, why can’t she read mine but still expects me to read hers? And doesn’t that imply that she can’t be understood without understanding what she isn’t saying to me? Than why am I always in trouble when I say that she is not clear to me?

Sighs, it is all too mind boggling for me… I am so lucky that she was willing to marry me anyway, even with my obvious flaws as a man…

Women are “complicated” because that’s just one more thing that they can do to annoy us.

bun · February 16, 2013, 12:22pm

Okay, next up on Babypips’s house of drama it’s mastergunner99’s live trading tracking thread. We didn’t start the fire it was already burning 'fore we left our comments~

mastergunner99 · February 16, 2013, 12:38pm

"jwlee7ucla":

I’m going to address you toekan, because there are a few things you have mixed up here. The reason for people demanding evidence is not because it represents 10% a month for them, its because when you make claims about how good your trading is, at the very least to show its possible for them, SOMEONE ELSE(the creator) is actually generating a profit using that strategy. What good is a theoretical strategy that no1 is winning from?

Now your 2nd point- There is a difference between advice like “you shouldn’t overleveraging your account like that”, to “you must do this and this and this and view the markets like this to win”. One is general advice, one is very specific trading strategy (which comes with verifiable evidence as in you winning more or less often).

Now when talking with you in the chat, you give genera advice and “strategy”. You don’t solicit people to you, so you don’t count.

Now when we talk about people like MG99, he is JUST AS BAD as ict. Hes just not famous. He is equally egotistical, and he believes his way is the only way. Everything he says solicits and tries to convince people he is some awesome profitable trader, and when you say things like that, you need proof that what you are saying has some merit to it. Now, doesn’t that make him sound like eremarket? The only difference is that eremarkets does not act like a douche online to everyone except ICT back when they were butting heads.

I share “advice” all the time in the chat, but I always say things in the context that its unverifiable evidence, and its general advice (like yours). When you have people like MG99 who’s motto is, “sure you don’t have to listen to me, you’ll just be wrong”, everyone is expected to say “oh yeah, then show me the proof if you are so great”.

Make sense? He is acting more “calm” now because he is being smug that he ended up being in the right about ICT. For him, this whole image of him being Mr. awesome trader with no verifiable proof is all an ego thing. My advice? Ignore people like ict and mg99 and eremarkets n etc etc when it comes to soliciting profitable trading with no proof. There is nothing wrong with learning general advice.

So somehow magically people begin profiting only a few weeks after reading his thread? His material is so good that it changes a losing trader into a winning one IN ONLY A FEW WEEKS? What kind of snake oil is that? Sounds sketchy as heck to me, considering how much time real traders take to make some real consistent progress.

This post warms my heart with overwhelming joy and love.

pipmart · February 16, 2013, 12:41pm

Well for entertainment sake this is my take on the famous ICT debacle.

Option 1:
Ict is a real trader that make money from the market. His ego destroyed him during this challenge. He couldn’t lose in front of others and had talked himself up so much that he just couldn’t take it. This caused him to trade like a total noob. The only real problem I have with this is it took him so long to actually place the 5000 in the account. Now go ahead and flame. lol

Option 2: Three years ago there was a trader named ICT that was so so so close to making money in the market he could taste it. Instead of winning he demo traded and demo traded while working full time at a pizza joint. One day his wife said to him " Hey Mr. ICT, all the stuff you tell me about the market makes so much sense… Why don’t you teach others your methodologies as a way to learn them yourself? Set a time line and teach others these concepts until you know them forwards and backwards. When you have total confidence in your system put some real money in a account and trade it." Ict said, “Wow what a great idea. This will keep me accountable (they both new he had trouble being disciplined ie missed kill zones, money management etc.)” From that point on the well meaning ict started teaching his strategies. The more he taught the more he convinced himself (and his wife) that he could make a great living it this.
Fast forward to know: Ict wife finally talked him into actually taking the leap and trading. He made it public so he would be sure and get up for kill zones, and never move his stops. He scraped 5000 bucks together. It was now time to change the world! You guys know the rest of the story.
I like this reason because the way he traded that account was SO how a newbie trades…

Now guys, don’t get your panties in a bundle over this. I have no idea what happened to ICT. This is mainly entertainment for a long weekend. GOOD LUCK AND GOOD TRADING. lol

akeakamai · February 16, 2013, 12:49pm

Jaroon:

Open your eyes AK and do yourself a favour, your tone is still one that defends Mickey.

We have evidence he can’t trade well but none that he can. We have a history of him lying and passing off others youtube material (gun collection for one) but no evidence of any truth about his claims of wealth and market history. We have evidence of his sock puppeting and melt down posts totally contrary to his god loving, Christian image he liked to portray.

You came back after a change of heart regarding Michey boy but you still think he’s a wealthy and succcessful trader,really?

Toekan is also stuck in a loop of illogic where we need to be grateful to any nutcase that spends his precious time (when he’s not drinking from the toilet bowl and howling at the moon) spewing drivel at noobs. No we don’t these attention seeking weirdos or failed traders looking to gain from their ineffectual but pretty market/trading narrative. Toekan told me in another post that these mentors owe us NOTHING. Well I think we owe each other honesty.

The difference is you still attach the tools to the man. I have long since separated the two. I gave up on the Man, but I keep the tools. I don’t see why someone couldn’t amass a good-sized fortune using the tools, given the right psychological space and focused environment.

I think a lot of people jumped the gun on thanking Michael… they gave praise before making the tools work for them, then they felt like saps. They have nothing, because they were running on Michael’s success. I have the tools, and I made them work for me. Disappointed in the man, but still very happy with my tools.

I’m going into next week… doin the exact same thing I’ve been doing for months. There’s no change of my plan because Michael had a hissy-fit and a meltdown. If [B]you[/B] are changing your plan because of what happened to the ICT brand… that just shows weakness on your part.

jwlee7ucla · February 16, 2013, 12:51pm

I’m sorry, but your extremely poor presentation skills would make no one want to listen to you even if you were right. You are the same person who had to argue with someone that was agreeing with you and siding with you in a debate. Common knowledge in books such as “how to make friends and influence people” all point out to the fact that likability has a huge factor in whether or not the message is heard regardless of how much fact is being stated, and quite frankly your personality is abhorable.

akeakamai · February 16, 2013, 12:54pm

pipmart:

Well for entertainment sake this is my take on the famous ICT debacle.

Option 1:
Ict is a real trader that make money from the market. His ego destroyed him during this challenge. He couldn’t lose in front of others and had talked himself up so much that he just couldn’t take it. This caused him to trade like a total noob. The only real problem I have with this is it took him so long to actually place the 5000 in the account. Now go ahead and flame. lol

Option 2: Three years ago there was a trader named ICT that was so so so close to making money in the market he could taste it. Instead of winning he demo traded and demo traded while working full time at a pizza joint. One day his wife said to him " Hey Mr. ICT, all the stuff you tell me about the market makes so much sense… Why don’t you teach others your methodologies as a way to learn them yourself? Set a time line and teach others these concepts until you know them forwards and backwards. When you have total confidence in your system put some real money in a account and trade it." Ict said, “Wow what a great idea. This will keep me accountable (they both new he had trouble being disciplined ie missed kill zones, money management etc.)” From that point on the well meaning ict started teaching his strategies. The more he taught the more he convinced himself (and his wife) that he could make a great living it this.
Fast forward to know: Ict wife finally talked him into actually taking the leap and trading. He made it public so he would be sure and get up for kill zones, and never move his stops. He scraped 5000 bucks together. It was now time to change the world! You guys know the rest of the story.
I like this reason because the way he traded that account was SO how a newbie trades…

Now guys, don’t get your panties in a bundle over this. I have no idea what happened to ICT. This is mainly entertainment for a long weekend. GOOD LUCK AND GOOD TRADING. lol

My money is heavily on option 1, but option 2 is a very entertaining narrative lol