You bet your pips they are…lol. Anything that is drawn on a chart is an indicator. Some are time representation of price movement (like candles/bars etc), some are squiggly lines or straight lines, and some are objects like text & special characters. I believe a truely naked chart is just a “tick” chart.
I can’t help but present my lyrics of a twisted tune version of Arlo Guthries’ song “Alice’s Restaurant” …
[B][I]“And they was using up all kinds of indicators that they had hanging around the trading platform. They was usin’ MACD, bolinger bands, starc bands, & keltner channels, and they drew twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy cartoons with vectors, circles and arrows and a paragraph on each one explaining what each one was to be used for. Took pictures of the entry, the exit, the northwest corner (shorts) the southwest corner (longs) and that’s not to mention it’s supposed to be called the the Joy of “Candlestick” Trading.”[/I][/B] :rolleyes:
I think it would be more accurate for those who claim not to use indicators,… although one of them mentioned [B][I]“I can�t (unfortunately) divulge all my little tricks & party pieces, as some of them are proprietry tools”[/I][/B],… to say that they don’t use very many indicators…as in cluttered vs uncluttered charts.
So hope you pips can work it all out…I’ve run out of handbags and Delta Dawn I’m not
Hey Jimmy, not a cry for help! I haven’t traded anyone elses strategy for a long time, but I agree, they’re pretty decent starting points
Chubs, ditching indicators wasn’t a flight of fancy, or something I decided to do randomly one day; it was the result of sheer bloody hard work over a year of testing, backtesting, forwardtesting and live trading. It wouldn’t surprise me if some of the others had similar experiences… who knows.
And while I don’t claim to earn 90,000% annualised ROI because that would be crazy, I can safely say my account is growing and not shrinking.
Does this mean that indicators are rubbish? Not at all. Do I believe that MP used them successfully? Yes. Will I ever use one again? Maybe, if one proves itself of worth, but right now, no. It’s not a black and white issue, never will be.
And for one, I think it’s sad that MP was banned. I’ve an idea why, but despite his (fairly obvious) exaggerations, he brought a bit of colour round here.
i think i will ban you all from this topic if you start fighting again…:mad:
bottom line is some people use indicators some not. who use indicators can share them here, who is not can find some other post to reply in. not a very complicated issue isnt it?
i’ve spotted this chart today. i knowthe chart will move up but i failed to figure out the entry point. thought of the pivot point but price when below S1 and didnt reach S2.
is there any suggestions of what is the best to be used in such situations ? i attached the 30mand 1m charts.
To give a logical basis for my disagreement lets look at the definition of an indicator…
[B]An indicator[/B]…
… is the plot on a chart, of any resultant that is derived from [U]raw price data [/U]by processing this data tho mathematical computation where the raw data becomes the [U]independent variable [/U]in a formula and the resultant becomes the [U]dependent variable[/U].
Candlesticks and price action are simply raw price data.
The fact that there is a histogram is irrelevant.
Raw price data is of the form of …[U]what you see is what you get.[/U]
So, according to the definition, lets see what is and what is not an indicator.
[B]Indicators[/B]
MACD
Stochastics
RSI
The inner points of a Fibonacci tool
Heikin Ashi candles
Any moving average
Williams %R
Parabolic Sar
Linear regression
Mesa sine wave
Money flow index
The list goes on.
[B]Not indicators[/B]
Trend lines
The end points of a Fibonacci tool
Support and resistance lines
price action
candlesticks
Chart magnification
Semi-logarthimic scaling
Time frames
stop loss and take profit lines
Gann angles
Wether you are an indicator trader or not, I think it all leads to this hyperlink
in which Australian master trader Chris Tate discusses some very important points about indicators which are not brought up in this forum.
The author Van Tharp, I believe, wrote in his book (I cannot remember the title, I do not have it but have read parts of it) that one can trade successfully just by tossing a coin to decide which way to trade.
Before you present posters came on this forum, there was a poster named Basooko.
He actually set out to prove the above by tossing a coin every morning to determine which way to trade.
Here are the threads…
Just curious here, and using good sense and reason and a cool, calm and collected manner.
Have your read the thread topic that you are posting on? Do you have the ability to start your own thread? And, why do you feel it necessary to “convert the masses” to your ideas?
If someone were to ask me if I knew of a good source of info on how to trade without indicators, I would more than happily send them in your direction.
You keep dragging me into your topic which is off topic to this thread. Please stop.
Please honor the wishes of the individual that started the thread.
Up Market = Everybody Friends
Down Market = Everybody Fights
It looks like too many never thought the Euro and Cable would ever fall. I could only imagine what would happen if the Dow ever fell below 11.5k and we all know housing prices will never go down.
At least Chubpips turned 5 100 dollar bills into half a million in all this mess. Took a whole 4 months to do it though. I could have done it in 3 with no downside risk at all.
I miss the old BP where everybody was friends and dill weads that made the above claims were run out in less than 5 seconds.
Besides the welcoming posts and fending off questions about mp6140, at least half of the others were directly about indicators.
The opening thread was “which indicators” to which a whole group of us simply said…“none”.
I think thats fair.
I am not trying to rip anyone here but I think it was necessary to make a mathematically sound definition of an indicator so that we all know where we stand.
In conclusion, I really thought that my post #46 on page 5 was one of the nicest on this thread.
I do not wish to further discuss your trading style, or mine, with you sir, this is why I hadn’t done so sooner. Eventually someone is going to want to be something they are not, or, for some reason, be jealous or constantly inquisitive. Please, PLEASE, stop quoting me. I don’t care to discuss anything with you Tymen. It is fruitless. You trade your way and I will trade mine.
in this marvelous world there are “usually” a few ways of getting from point A to point B and there will be discussions forever concerning what is the best way to accrue profits in any trading venue.
there are people who are good at one method and others who are lost in that world and find another ---- i happen to be one in the “indicator” camp as one is open to so much “more” information than a moving column of candles that cant tell you if they are still strong, getting weak, or has reached its reversal point until after that reversal occurs — looking at a chart “after the fact” a reversal candle looks like an excellent indication, but one must understand that candle took TIME to develop, and in the higher timeframes that could certainly be one or four hours ----for this reason only, because it gives me the “whole” move and warns me in advance of a reversal, i choose indicators which may be a pip or two behind the action, if that.
price action and its related candlestick pattern recognition is a highly viable entry method that does suffer from a certain “lag” in identifying reversals and especially if one is dealing with “multiple candle formations” to identify that reversal — there is no argument with this, because it simply takes time for three candles to form, and that time can be better spent in already being “in” the trade and heading off to take another one.
but price action is the “easiest” form of trading as one does not have to learn and familiarize themselves with a few indicators ---- unfortunately, even in the shortest term “scalping”, it is subject to rapid up and down movements that the indicators tend to “smooth” out, leading to the trader “reading” the correct support or resistance area as the trade develops. The “price action” trader is moving up and down in a phenominally rapid manner, following the movement of price, but paying small attention to the support area that indicators will have already shown.
both systems work but i think one is simply and proveably better !
certainly no argument possible with what you enjoy, but i also notice a few EMA’s in there and the “occasional” glace at the RSI, so i believe you to not be a “pure” price action trader which is a fine way to go.
while the RSI is a very good indicator unto itself, the stochastics and CCI are conclusively “better” at gauging strength and reversals, but this also becomes a discussion if one knows HOW you trade, what timeframes you trade and the length of time one leaves a trade open, not to forget your tolerance for drawdowns and the multitude of other factors inherent in YOUR style of trading.
No one “method” fits all, and the best trader methods are usually an amalgum of things taken from “here” and “there” and applied to your own particular "style ----- this is something that newbs must learn from experience, but once they do and once it becomes “second nature”, then more and more successful trades develop.
I’ve been practicing with the CCI and am strongly considering using it in my setup. I’m getting a feel for it, I trade primarily the 5M.
I used to trade pure price action and trendlines, but I feel a lot more comfortable w/ some indicators. Hey, I’m satisfied with 50 pips a day.
My RSI is setup to show me when the markets are reaching extremes, when they come back down I can usually catch a good run of pips… hence the reason I rarely look at it. I focus more on the stoch, the two work well together for me… and like I said, I’m starting to have a love affair with the CCI. I use some other custom things too, but that’s for another day…
