yeah I heard about that. I had one of those 900 numbers too… ah the good ole days
Don’t want to miss the party here but I’ve said this before in a similar ICT sceptic themed thread:
ICT is giving you all his tools, knowledge and experience for FREE. It’s up to you to choose to use them, and whether you can apply them successfully. Teach someone to play tennis, give them a good tennis racquet doesn’t guarantee that person will be a tennis success. It takes practice and hard work and sometimes some people aren’t cut out for it. So please ditch the sceptism and blame any frustrations and failures on the person in the mirror.
I got into trading in July of 2011, and found ICT’s thread and videos in September of 2011. From the very first video it was pretty clear that ICT was the real deal. At the time, it was a lot of new information and I was rushing to learn it. At times it was a little frustrating, and initially I felt like an outsider. I was new to trading and it seemed like everyone else knew more than I did, and I thought it was a little ‘clicky’ at times, so while I tried using ICT methods, I was also trying the London Close system that I bought, and I had some Skype lessons (10 or so) with Eremarket (G).
Eremarket is a very talented trader and a really cool fellow. I don’t think EM dropped off of Babypips because things weren’t working out from a trading perspective, I think it was more that he was managing accounts, and that was getting very busy for him. His trading style was to identify and trade from Supply and Demand zones. I remember a couple of great sessions with EM where he would talk about the psychology of candles, setting up trades, etc that were really interesting. I also remember us discussing ICT’s teachings a number of other times.
However, the stuff Michael teaches is on a different level, and even EM acknowledged that. In a couple of the videos EM made, he referenced the Traders Trinity and acknowledged that he adapted the TT, and applied it for S/D.
I am now a profitable trader, and unfortunately due to a ridiculous commute and insane lifestyle, I’m fast asleep during the London open, and I miss a lot of entries. However, I truly enjoy the art of trading and am very passionate about it. I believe that between 6-18 months from now, I will be trading as my profession. Things now are really starting to click, and I can say in total honesty, that it is mostly due to the teachings of ICT.
ICT is obviously a very progressive minded person. However, the folks on his thread sometimes frown when non-ICT approaches are raised, which I think is the opposite of where he is coming from. He seems the type of fellow who is about the truth of the art and about learning, not just about the truths he’s presenting.
As someone who is an active participant / observer, I agree that what ICT is teaching is the right way to go about market analysis. However it is not the only useful way to go about it. I understand ICT material even better thanks to things I’ve learned from EM, Nikitafx, Chris Capre, even Nial Fuller’s free videos, Shirley Hudson’s LC (though I now know that the material is common knowledge and common sense and much of it available for free in my opinion), Babypips school, a couple of good folks at Forex Factory, and the community here at BP.
However, in my opinion, until someone takes down Jesse James, ICT is the Jesse James of FX trading.
Babypips will always have a cult leader. They were here before ICT and there will be here after ICT.
For me, the man’s math simply doesn’t add up. And if I’m going to put my money into anything I’m for certain going to do so when it’s mathematically prudent.
Indeed he has nothing to sell and he provides an education for people. However, a mere education doesn’t equate to a profitable bottom line.
I’ve heard his claims of income and simply do not believe them. You simply don’t consistently turn 250k into $5 million each year on a consistent basis. Certainly not to just start over again. While I can’t prove it, I have reason to believe his income claims are false and the burden of proof lies on him not me. I’m allowed to not simply believe because he says so.
Now this is where cognitive dissonance sets in for some. You want to believe. You want to believe so badly that you will dispel rational logic to maintain your belief. And that is where the danger lies.
Sometimes it’s a simple matter of put up or shut up.
Basically ICTs fate here at babypips has a countdown timer right now. He has said multiple times, and adamantly, that he will be posting his myfxbook in January. If he doesn’t he will lose face and we probably won’t see him anymore. If he does and can’t show the type of performance he has stated, then he will lose face and we probably won’t see him anymore. If he does and he can show his performance then there will be no questions as to his legitimacy. A month and a half left…
The other alternative is he loses face but try’s to dismiss it away while sticking around… That would be just pathetic though and I don’t think his ego could handle it.
I realize I am late to the party - so I will just give two thoughts - sorry for the vulgarity of the second thought.
- In my place of employment the work can be very tricky at times because requirements for what is to be done changes for whatever reason:
And I sometimes get dinged on items that were just not thought of - my lack of intuitiveness I guess.
However - realizing this and applying to the forex market - has both made me a better ‘worker’ and I suspect soon a profitable trader.
So here it is – You don’t know what you DON"T KNOW.
I am on a mission to discover what it is I don’t know so that I can chalk it it in the I KNOW this column. I don’t even fatham how someone with 6 months or even 6 years of experience can rip on a guy with many more years experience - go seek what it is you don’t know - you’ll grow as a person.
Threads like this simply expose you - the ones who really don’t know what you don’t know - it is obvious to those who do know what you don’t know even though you are clueless.
item 2 - there are only three types of traders
ones that piss with the wind
ones that piss against the wind
ones that can’t piss and blame others.
You may want to put “how many years of experience a trader on a forum has” under the list of things you do not know 
You seems to know what ICT’s path in Babypips if/when he loses. You are already predicting that it is not going to work.
So what are you going to do if ICT proved to the people who are skeptics that his method is working?
I haven’t read anything what they (skeptics) are going to do. Maybe just to say “Sorry, I am wrong.” ?
For me this is not good enough.
I am curious to know.
I disagree.
There are three types of traders.
- Those that are profitable.
- Those that are not.
- Those that pretend that they are.
There always seems to be a significant dearth from the second type.
I’m all for your pursuit of education. But the value of your education is only as good as the content.
Anyone can get a doctorate degree. The methods of obtaining one and the credentials of the issuing institution vary greatly.
Are you educating yourself in Forex simply to learn more, or to implement the knowledge and translate it into a profitable bottom line.
If it’s a mere education you seek, then you are on the right path. ICT has much to offer. And will continue to do so I would imagine.
However, if you are seeking to implement for purposes of profit, then the education you are receiving should be further scrutinized. For in the end, ICT has nothing to lose. You however do.
Ask yourself this, aren’t I more in the right to scrutinize him than you are to scrutinize those that scrutinize him?
Where did I predict or allude that he will not be able to show that his performance is what he claims…?
I stated what the scenarios are, and my predictions of what will happen in each scenario. However, I did not predict which scenario will occur.
Correct?
Stating that skeptics exist indicates that a measure of faith needs to exist as there is a lack of irrefutable evidence.
As such, when it requires belief, it is natural there are those that do and those that don’t.
The skeptic wouldn’t be wrong for not believing for they arrived at there belief as a result of the application of their own logic in light of the lack of evidence.
A skeptic in some degree might even want to believe, and that there simply isn’t enough proof to accept it as truth.
For instance, everyone would surely want an immortal Paradise after our lives in Earth, but whether there is belief that it exists varies greatly, again largely due to a lack of irrefutable evidence. That said, I’m a believer in some form of a heaven.
Now in direct relation to ICT, those that believe want to believe. They feel a need to believe because there is something of tremendous gain to be had if it’s real. Wealth beyond anything they have ever seen before. Who wouldn’t want that? Surely I would as much as the next guy.
So to answer your question, what if ICT is right? What if you can turn 250k into $5 million each year consistently. Then he would have directly altered the entire world economy in such a way that has never been seen before in the history of the world. And to give anyone the same opportunity? Imagine the billions and trillions to be made. It would be incredible.
And if he’s wrong? Then the skeptic lost nothing in the end. Back to business as usual.
For you see, the skeptic in the face of irrefutable evidence still has the opportunity to believe. The skeptic loses nothing if wrong. You however stand to lose much from both a psychological and financial standpoint.
For your sake, and for the sake of anyone impoverished that has access to the Internet, I hope with all my might that ICT is right.
The cost that skeptics incur when proven wrong is opportunity cost. Given that the skeptic hopefully isn’t sitting on his bum waiting for irrefutable evidence to trade though, this cost is probably minimized.
The cost in this particular case is minimal, if almost nonexistent. If ICT is right, the amount of money his devout followers have in the market is miniscule to the dollars that would subsequently flood the markets.
ICT would essentially bankrupt world governments if he’s correct, based on his math.
Following the guy when he first started two years ago, assuming he is as good as he suggests, would give one two years experience under a “guru” who is in the 99.9th percentile of traders globally… These two years would assuredly be considered opportunity cost if one were to miss out based on skepticism.
Obviously what is up for debate is if his claims which would equate to being in the 99.9th percentile is believable.
Perhaps, but everyone has a different learning curve. Also people would latch on to those that know. That’s how money managers exist. The best of the best in the world get paid tens of millions annually to manage the billions they have under management.
If he’s right, I have a lot more to concern myself with than opportunity cost. It would be anarchy throughout the world as the flow of all the world’s money is falling directly into the hands of a few devout followers from some obscure website from the depths of the Internet.
Not really… Even if he can back up his performance claims, that does not equate to people being able to replicate them. I’m sure you’ve heard of the “turtle method” experiment, and how the creator point blankly said that he can tell people how to trade successfully but it is in human nature to not follow it… Also one would have to assume there would be intangible skills that ICT would possess and be unable to teach that also would attribute to his assumed success.
So even if he was as successful as he asserts, we don’t have to worry about financial chaos upon the fame that would follow validated performance on the scale he has claimed
Fair enough. But what happens if he decides to stop starting over each year at $250k and just let the $5 million compound for a few years.
The fate of the world truly lies with one man. That is too much power for one man to have on his own. He must be stopped!
I wanted to clarify my post, especially for any new traders who are reading.
- When I look at my inbox, and see all the responses to questions I’ve asked from the folks that make up the ICT community, Ive gotten far more than I’ve given. Although I found it “clicky” when I first joined, I think that was mostly a function of my newness to trading. There is the very reasonable expectation that people have a basic understanding of currency trading, such as going through the school at Babypips and reading the previous posts in the thread.
It is a GREAT place to ask questions and participate. And yes, there is a feeling of loyalty towards ICT, because he has given ridiculous amounts of his own time to teach people how to sit at home and make money for free - during the worst job market in the last 80 years. It is a very positive community with awesome people.
- Obviously by calling ICT “Jesse James” it was meant as a compliment. Another way of echoing that ‘he’s the man.’ Too many Breaking Bad episodes for me.
I’ve spent nearly twenty years analyzing and preparing (non trading) financial reports and worked several years at one of the large ‘market maker’ firms. I’ve (been lucky to) worked with some very talented people, who’s skills and experience were very evident. ICT has nothing to prove to me. Look at his ‘Power of Three’ video, and ‘NY Open’ video and then look at a daily bar-chart. This stuff really works, and the more you learn and the more time you spend PATIENTLY practicing, the better it gets. Self discipline and patience sold separately.
Theoretically… I would assume he would get slaughtered as central banks would intervene to stabilize the volatility he would create from trading multiple yards.
Also institutional traders would become aware of his positioning and SL and TP strategies and would run his stops.
He would have to resort to the type of trading Sorros did in the past where you wait years for a fundamental tipping point, and become the straw that breaks the camels back.
His strategy would have to be altered greatly and he may even find it profitable to trade against his followers, seeing that he would now have enough market impact to run his followers stops.
Okay folks… I think we are entering the realm of Bull and Fantasy for humor sake. Let me state something right here and for the record. I NEVER claimed I consistently turn 250k into 5 million trading Forex each and every year. I did claim however, I have made 5 million in one year and that I restart my equity base in FX to 250k on a specific account each and every year.
Read that again… it doesn’t say I make 250k turn into 5 million in 12 months every year. When I get folks forwarding this posts when I abandon a thread because of it’s Tomfoolery… it really illustrates the need for folks to draw attention. Here are the facts… the account I made 5 mil in was not a 250k account. I have several accounts and the one I manage and set 20 mil as a goal on is what is being referred to here. Please get your facts correct.
This is whatt all of you that like to lob grenades at these threads want to see… this is what you guys want to hear… in 2013 I am going to Trade a Live Account via Oanda and connected to MyFxBook for record and tracking. It will grow to over 1 million dollars. I am promising you it will happen. I am not promising you it will happen in 12 months.
ICT isn’t your run of the mill goober on a thread trying to sell EA’s for nickels and dimes. I am going to grab you by the lapels and drag you through a real world event that nobody… not one on the planet has done and succeeded before. I have no worry about saving face… because I know it will be accomplished.* I have no fear of “fading away” as it won’t be happening. I want you to doubt it… as the shock factor will be even greater than it would normally be otherwise. I didn’t build my name on the back of wiining a contest using Demo accounts and rolling dice with overleveraged Demo trades. You will see why I am ICT and not remotely close to the majority beating their chests and making claims with no “proof”.
Why do I care? Why bother? Simply put… I need to personally… I can and I will.
I have done everything I every said I would do here and else where… this is nothing outside my capability and yes… I will be all Ego and All In when I go. My modesty and mild mannered approach will be put on the back burner for a little while - while I permit my other side to run free. I will have accomplished my goals in Babypips this coming Thanksgiving… with the last of my Trading Plan Development Series.* The 12 Days of ForeXmas is just extras I felt you all would like as a year end closer.
I find it sweet to see such a polarizing over whether I can or can’t make money. I tell you where the markets going before it trades there… and at which price… consistently. Do you actually think I won’t remember how to do that over the Holiday break? In an industry full of crap and lies… I have elected to stand as the man who is willing to put it on the line and do it on a level nobody thus far has done before. Here is one for you skeptics to run with… If ICT doesn’t do it real time and 100% documented… it can’t be done.
I get a kick out of some of this posts… and yes, 2013 is fast approaching guys… Place your orders now… how would you like your crow served? Cuz’ this Big Dog can and will be on the hunt!
[B]Ready Up![/B] :57: